3Rd Party Certifying ....latest Development.

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Evans Electric

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Main story in the Electrical Contracting News ,   NICEIC /ELECSA will not be involving themselves in 3rd party certifying as they believe it will encourage shoddy work and affect the market for registered electricians.  

And I for one agree with them .    Its obvious that to allow such testing to  be carried out by registered electricians is not going to happen   then no one else should be doing it . 

 
and allowing 5DW to be classed as 'competent' and sign off their own work isnt creating shoddy work? but i think you did get the right part in it though - 'affect the market for registered electricians' - they would probably loose members and not get as much profit...

 
Thats one way of looking at it Andy, but what they are saying is DIY work will be done and then all they need to do is get it signec off by 3rd Party.

The 3rd Party Scheme cannot be good for the industry, and the NIC say they want no part in it.

Deke I did post about this 2 weeks ago and you commented on it, haha.

 
Not sure why they would bother? Part p seems pretty un enforceable because of the sheds need to churn out all this Chinese carp and the lack of public understanding. I think that very few diyer's are going bother with the extra expense of certification. So what's the point?

 
Steve :-     I tend to forget things these days :wacko:

Bluey :-    Thats a good point  .   I wonder if our trade should have gone full throttle for an Australian style licence or a Gas Sure type ststem ? 

 
so, NICEIC wont allow unskilled people to carry out the work then have it signed off by a skilled person,,,,?  :slap

kinda makes a mockery out of their QS system, how do they think that actually works...?

fooking bunch of hypocrites ,,,,,,

I think Andy hit it on the head as they would lose members hand over fist,

 
So much attention on 5ww that we forget about diyers, unscrupulous builders, handymen, del boy from daan tha pub can all do electrics and they can get their mitts on whatever they want.

And there is nothing to stop them :|

 
so, NICEIC wont allow unskilled people to carry out the work then have it signed off by a skilled person,,,,? :slap

kinda makes a mockery out of their QS system, how do they think that actually works...?

fooking bunch of hypocrites ,,,,,,

I think Andy hit it on the head as they would lose members hand over fist,
Steps - not actually correct its ELECSA and NIC

 
Quite honestly since Part p was downgraded I think it may as well be scrapped anyway.

I will say though when people want to sell there houses will they honestly say no electrical work has been done since 2005 when it has not been done legally i think not.

 
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So on a large comercial/industrial contract with say 50+ electricians who is the QS ?

You normally have the foreman who has chargehands who then have say 6 or so electricians to work under them.

On a job like this they woukd all be JIB graded labourer, electrician, approved electrician etc, so how many QS does the job need, does the JIB Approved Electrician need a QS or is he a QS, the JIB used to have set rules about who could do what but where are we now. I think a time served electrician thats passed the exams had the on site experiance of say 5 years is his own QS.

 
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Steve .this has been raised by the Parliamentary Committee I believe , also raised in the Emma Shaw case ........as in .......... " How many jobs should an overseeing QS  sign off in a year ?"      Highlighting the difference with a one man band scam member who only signs off his own jobs .  

 
Steve .this has been raised by the Parliamentary Committee I believe , also raised in the Emma Shaw case ........as in .......... " How many jobs should an overseeing QS sign off in a year ?" Highlighting the difference with a one man band scam member who only signs off his own jobs .
Deke thats my point, one man band, sole trader, small company, large company, where do we draw the line.

So small company employs 5 competent electricians all vetted showing full certs and experience, they do their own work and testing then report back to the company with results/certs etc, this is how its been since I've been in trade some 40 years, there are 100's of firms like this up and down the country.

Now if these companies are NIC the will have to have a QS, but if not then I assume they don't, so what happens to those that are not NIC and dont have a QS ?

 
So on a large comercial/industrial contract with say 50+ electricians who is the QS ?

You normally have the foreman who has chargehands who then have say 6 or so electricians to work under them.

On a job like this they woukd all be JIB graded labourer, electrician, approved electrician etc, so how many QS does the job need, does the JIB Approved Electrician need a QS or is he a QS, the JIB used to have set rules about who could do what but where are we now. I think a time served electrician thats passed the exams had the on site experiance of say 5 years is his own QS.
:slap

now, thats another joke altogether,,,,,,

lets not confuse 2 joke schemes in one thread perhaps.........

each and every electrician should be graded and LICENCED on his own merit, nothing to do with paying anyone to be a member of any scam!

and, NO, the JIB do not grade or licence on merit, I have this on personal experience,

long story, but to cut it short, many years ago they disowned me [so to speak] , then recently told me they would grade me for a small payment of some monies,,,,    :slap

how is that grading on merit?  purely for monetary gain IMHO

 
Deke thats my point, one man band, sole trader, small company, large company, where do we draw the line.

So small company employs 5 competent electricians all vetted showing full certs and experience, they do their own work and testing then report back to the company with results/certs etc, this is how its been since I've been in trade some 40 years, there are 100's of firms like this up and down the country.

Now if these companies are NIC the will have to have a QS, but if not then I assume they don't, so what happens to those that are not NIC and dont have a QS ?
Yes  same here Steve , and in the past the Sparks were all qualified and capable but only the QM signs off the certs as a company .  I think the point that I was reading into it was , in some cases , they are going through the motions , ticking the boxes but the standard of the test results is leaving something to be desired.   I've been self employed for a long time so would the Sparky on site sign the "Install  & Testing" box and the QM sign the "Design"? 

No idea TBH  .  If its house bashing under building control they'd have to use a third party .

If its commercial / industrial / Non Phart P  they could just use general  Non-Logo certificates , no need to be joining a scam 

 

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