NVR Switches in parallel

Hi people...

Question: can I wire a number of NVR switches in parallel?

Backround: I've got a dust extractor in my workshop running a ducted system (Axminster SFCA200 on 63mm ducting) been happily running back to the extractor to switch on when I wanted it- but now with a re-organisation and additional bandsaw that isn't going to be quite so feasible.

Issues: Clear plastic ducting, so has a static discharge wire (wound around pipework and earthed on extractor and ground) (Supplementary question- would it be safe and effective to use the earth on my mains circuit to do this?)

What I'm after: Basically, I'm looking for some way of being able to switch on the extractor from any 'workstation'. I have an air filter which is remote control- I would be happy with that, if that's a simpler way of achieving the objective, although I can't see how that can be done and still have the protection of a NVR, and I can't imagine that they would put an NVR on if it wasn't required... Hence the question...

In principle you can have any number of start switches (usually normally open and wired in parallel) and any number of stop switches (usually normally closed switches, wired in series)

You would still have just the one contactor.

If your NVR switch is the sort where the start button physically pushes the plunger of the contactor then you probably need to start with a better NVR switch to add multiple stop start buttons.

Hi ProDave

I thought as much- always best to check though. I suspect the NVR switch on the extractor is a physical one- there is a resounding 'click' when I switch off.

Incidently I live near the Piddle... And have appointed myself a Long-term, Sustained-use tester for the products of the Piddle Brewery...

Many years ago I visited a pub next to the river piddle (not sure if there is more than one river piddle) and they had bottles of "piddle water" for sale.

As far as I know, there is only one Piddle down 'ere, and indeed the locals have made trade (and amusement) out of selling piddle water... And to think there was once pressure from some of the comers-in to change the name of the river to the trent...

Hello Different Displays,

Welcome to the forum.

There can be a lot more to your question than meets the eye.

Is this for home DIY use or for use in  a business undertaking?

Ahh... Now that's a question.

It started out as serious hobbyist- but I've been picking up more and more commisions, so I'm starting to configure it to more work related, hence the air filter, as well as a ducted dust extraction system...I'm even separating chippings and dust.

I spent some sensible money a while back having proper electrics done- 16amp circuits for all the machinery etc

So think of it as a small commercial workshop....

Ooooerrrrrr...

john.....

Different Displays said:

Ahh... Now that's a question.

It started out as serious hobbyist- but I've been picking up more and more commisions, so I'm starting to configure it to more work related, hence the air filter, as well as a ducted dust extraction system...I'm even separating chippings and dust.

I spent some sensible money a while back having proper electrics done- 16amp circuits for all the machinery etc

So think of it as a small commercial workshop....

Click to expand...

OK, then you have all the requirements of meeting PUWER98, EAWR89, & COSHH regulations.

So, you will need to have your LEV tested in accordance with COSHH regulations every 13 months max, and your machinery will have to comply with PUWER98 to be legal for use.

Now IMHO having looked at the manual for the SFCA200, it does not meet the requirements for PUWER compliance.

Thus it is illegal for use in a commercial enterprise, full stop.

However, you cannot blame the seller as it could be legal for use in a DIY or hobby workshop.

Once you cross the line, the overheads go up ten fold.

So, if you need advice, then we have to advise you on the business undertaking requirements.

This can be done, but, the costs will spiral upwards very quickly.

Sidewinder said:

Now IMHO having looked at the manual for the SFCA200, it does not meet the requirements for PUWER compliance

Click to expand...

Made in china see...

john..

I think what the OP means though, is that it is more or less commercial, in that he has commercial type needs, but unofficially!!!! [Shhhhh]]

john..

The SFCA was bought when I was only a serious hobbyist... and is actually 7yrs old. In my 5 year plan, I want to replace it with a 4" ducted system (extracted to an external collection point) anyway- this will come when the business demands.

Having already spoken to the local council, environmental health and the local HSE office (who visited) they are comfortable with my current set-up, provided that my activity does not exceed my expected level...and I don't employ anyone... The Council guy suggested I change my CO2 fire extinguisher for a AFFF one... Which is against the advice of the Local brigade Fire Safety officer (who has also suggested an external fire switch- which I am minded to do- seems logical to me)

The reality is that when I get to that stage I will be moving into a commercial workshop anyway and will set up accordingly. (Lots of grants and rates discounts available to new small businesses, as the south-west is a economically-deprived area)

Now... I actually asked about wiring NVR swirches in parallel, simply to make my life a bit more convenient... So thanks to ProDave for answering my question... And the interesting exchange about the river(!) Piddle. 

....But...I think I'll go somewhere else, I'm really not interested in receiving advice on stuff I've already checked out with the appropriate bodies and didn't ask about anyway...

wow. you really are.... (actually, best not to post what i did say, you wouldnt like it)

Different Displays said:

The SFCA was bought when I was only a serious hobbyist... and is actually 7yrs old. In my 5 year plan, I want to replace it with a 4" ducted system (extracted to an external collection point) anyway- this will come when the business demands.

Having already spoken to the local council, environmental health and the local HSE office (who visited) they are comfortable with my current set-up, provided that my activity does not exceed my expected level...and I don't employ anyone... The Council guy suggested I change my CO2 fire extinguisher for a AFFF one... Which is against the advice of the Local brigade Fire Safety officer (who has also suggested an external fire switch- which I am minded to do- seems logical to me)

The reality is that when I get to that stage I will be moving into a commercial workshop anyway and will set up accordingly. (Lots of grants and rates discounts available to new small businesses, as the south-west is a economically-deprived area)

Now... I actually asked about wiring NVR swirches in parallel, simply to make my life a bit more convenient... So thanks to ProDave for answering my question... And the interesting exchange about the river(!) Piddle. 

....But...I think I'll go somewhere else, I'm really not interested in receiving advice on stuff I've already checked out with the appropriate bodies and didn't ask about anyway...

Click to expand...

Well if you don't want to know the facts about what you are asking then don't ask, simple.

Now down to the facts again, you can't put what you call "NVR Switches" in parallel.

You have mis-interpreted ProDaves advice.

I can assure you that if I provided your local HSE inspector with the relevant advice on your extractor, then you could well have a PN coming your way as well as a bill under FFI.

Now you can install a "remote switching" point for the control system on your LEV, however, this must comply with the requirements of the relevant LAWS.

Please do NOT try to lecture me on what or what is not law.

IF something goes "wrong" in your workshop, your business insurer will throw this back in your face, you are insured as a business now you are operating as business aren't you?

You are not alone in not being compliant, and it is easy to prove, the local council EH are not competent to comment, an HSE FOD inspector will be looking for front line breaches, and I fail to see how either have not commented on COSHH requirements.

Your ONLY saving grace is that it seems that you are not employing?

Why do you think a 4" system is suitable?

Have you done the calculations and designs so that the system will comply with the requirements of COSHH legislation for the exposure levels for the required extraction rates etc. etc. under COSHH just because it's a 4" system?

Your posts are typical of how to alienate yourself on what is truly a friendly forum.

I do this stuff for a living, I do design, and implementation of LEV to comply with COSHH.

I do PUWER assessments, and provide advice to clients on how they can best comply with their statute law duty.

I advise machine OEM's on how to comply with the MD (& the LVD).

I undertake designs, installations, inspections & testing on electrical installations under BS7671.

I undertake design work and advice customers how to comply with the requirements of EN 60204.

In fact, I have been known to correct HSE inspectors on their interpretations and be proven right.

So, please, if you don't want the facts, don't ask.

The FACTS are if you are running a business, you have a STATUTE LAW duty to comply with, like it or not.

Cost is a factor, however, the general rule of thumb was, if the cost is less than the potential "loss of limb" in paper money, then you are probably fine.

Now dust controlled under COSHH, can kill, so, taking say a 10 stone person, because 10 is an easy number, then if it is going to cost less than 10 stones of paper money to control the hazard and comply with COSHH requirements, then get on with it.

Else, shut up shop, or be willing to pay the fine and do the time, because it is a criminal offence.

Oh, and it can be extrapolated to endangering the public too.

Why is it that when people don't receive the answer they want they blame everyone else but themselves,? :C

It's the usual scenario of only giving half the information actually required to keep them legal,

BTW, if the OP does read this,

I'd hazard a very good guess that the local council or FB have absolutely NO say over what HSE not asks of you or your equipment, but DEMANDS you meet your requirements,  otherwise holidays at HMP become viable options,

What has to be understood here is that once this hobby becomes a business venture in that you are receiving payment for goods you then have the above legal requirements to meet, along with your tax obligations etc. What intrigues me is that you clearly are not a ignorant person as you took the time to ask in the first place and you have clearly looked into moving your hobby forward, so why not take the grants and other assistance you say is readily available and go about it the right way? 

I am- the problem Is time and money... It can tak up to 9 months to go through the process, so I need a standby position in the meantime- otherwise the money I have got will disappear in living costs- there are no shared workshops (where the workshop with full kit is set up by a company or group and you just rent time or benchspace), within a reasonable distance, otherwise I would have gone down that route. 

Also hence the reason why I talked to all the various bodies to get a feeling- they seem to be happy as long as I stay as a sole trader and SE (small enterprise).

BTW The Local Fire Brigade are the ones with the statutary duty with reference to Fire Safety and Fire Prevention- with regard to those two subjects they supercede all other bodies, including HSE. I was very carefully advised by my Local HSE rep as to whom to talk to- Hence me mentioning the Local Council, FB and HSE- If I'd been nearer the Levels and Moor I'd be dealing with the Environment Agency as well (Who have a track record of issuing Directions that contravene HSE)

...And all three reps all mentioned COSHH, from their respective standpoints. HSE were most worried about the airborne dust rather than that collected.... Which Is why I've got an air filter thats 3 times the size needed for the volume in my workshop, with electrostatic filter and HEPA filters on my vacuum cleaner...EH wanted to know how I was going to store and dispose of the dust, The FB just wanted to make sure that the dust was safely stored until disposal...

I have a vested interest in being safe... I just wanted one question answered- I would happily have accepted advice on how to sensibily and safely achieve my aim- after all that's why I asked...