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Thanks PC once he has made one I will post pics. He has Aspergers on a quite severe level and spends hours on projects like this. He is planning a 'parafoil' type kite which means the inconsistencies of the material will not affect the performance so much (his words not mine). He has made numerous kites from things like newspaper, old pvc wrappings, drinking straws etc. He also made a long tube from binbags which absorbed the suns heat, which in turn heated the air within and made it float!

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He recently flew a kite with 2 miles of VHS tape on the back as a tail. arranged in 120 bunches of 30M each. He has flown a single length VHS kite tail of about 1200 feet.

 
A lot of these autistic types wound up at Bletchley

Park, solving the problem of the "Enigma" machine.

 
Hi All.

I am actually autistic too.....Did not know that did you...... [Well one or two of you did...]

[and yes, properly diagnosed, and yes, quite severe, and no, not one of the "self diagnosed" muppets either...]

Oh, and if anyone wants to ask any autism related questions, feel free... I am ashamed of how i am, [very] but if it means i can help anyone else, i will....

john...

 
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No disrespect John, but why be ashamed of who you are? look at the condition of Stephen Hawking do you think He feels a sense of shame?, I wouldn't ever feel a sense of shame if any of My kids had autism or the like, you are probably thinking and wondering, 'what does Zee know'?

AndyGuinness

 
Hi Zee,

You say "you are probably thinking and wondering, 'what does Zee know'?"

Nooooooo, not at all.... A life with autism changes you though. Imagine being stuck in a fishbowl all your life..You can see out and see all others have and take for granted, but that which you will never have or be part of.. You live you live in a separate "parallel" world....

It is impossible for "normal" people to understand, for you have different brains. Autism you see, is not a mental thing, it is an organically verifiable brain, well, "malformation" is the best word i can think of at the moment, because i am FREEZING sitting here!!!!

The discrimination you face is disgusting... 80% of people that are autistic, also develop a "co-morbid" mental disorder. [Hardly surprising when you see how we get treated] But help that others would take for granted, we are denied BECAUSE of our autism. Yes, ILLEGAL i know, but you try to do anything about it.

I once had a SENIOR NHS manager say to me "You are nothing to do with us, we are the NHS, we deal with illnesses. You are not ill, you have a condition. I suggest you learn to live with it"

Now, if a person with say, downs syndrome went to the doctors and was spoken to like that, the doctor would be sacked instantly, no investigation, instant suspension and dismissal. You have autism though, and this is the way you are going to be treated by ALL agencies that you come up against..

As i said, the discrimination you face is disgusting....

It is not nice.

Do you know what, I found a VERY VERY seriously autistic man once, [in a residential home, well, outside it actually] very distressed. It turns out, [and this man was hardly able to communicate] that the staff had actually locked him out of his own home deliberately [in the rain], as some sick form of punishment....

Oh really...Now, one thing i will ALWAYS do, is to help those less able than myself. It does not make me any "friends" if you like, it merely makes trouble for me, but i do not care, because i will not see people treated like that.

I told the staff in no uncertain terms, that if i EVER saw this man locked out again, that firstly, i would smash my way in to the place, to let him into, what is actually HIS home, and that secondly, then the next port of call would be the police station next door, where i would report them for abusing the poor chap... bye bye job, bye bye pension, hello jail....

He has not been locked out since... Yep, they can bully him, bullying me is not so easy...

john....

 
Should never be ashamed of who you are...............it would be a very boring world if we were all the same!

 
Hi Zee,You say "you are probably thinking and wondering, 'what does Zee know'?"

Nooooooo, not at all.... A life with autism changes you though. Imagine being stuck in a fishbowl all your life..You can see out and see all others have and take for granted, but that which you will never have or be part of.. You live you live in a separate "parallel" world....

It is impossible for "normal" people to understand, for you have different brains. Autism you see, is not a mental thing, it is an organically verifiable brain, well, "malformation" is the best word i can think of at the moment, because i am FREEZING sitting here!!!!

The discrimination you face is disgusting... 80% of people that are autistic, also develop a "co-morbid" mental disorder. [Hardly surprising when you see how we get treated] But help that others would take for granted, we are denied BECAUSE of our autism. Yes, ILLEGAL i know, but you try to do anything about it.

I once had a SENIOR NHS manager say to me "You are nothing to do with us, we are the NHS, we deal with illnesses. You are not ill, you have a condition. I suggest you learn to live with it"

Now, if a person with say, downs syndrome went to the doctors and was spoken to like that, the doctor would be sacked instantly, no investigation, instant suspension and dismissal. You have autism though, and this is the way you are going to be treated by ALL agencies that you come up against..

As i said, the discrimination you face is disgusting....

It is not nice.

Do you know what, I found a VERY VERY seriously autistic man once, [in a residential home, well, outside it actually] very distressed. It turns out, [and this man was hardly able to communicate] that the staff had actually locked him out of his own home deliberately [in the rain], as some sick form of punishment....

Oh really...Now, one thing i will ALWAYS do, is to help those less able than myself. It does not make me any "friends" if you like, it merely makes trouble for me, but i do not care, because i will not see people treated like that.

I told the staff in no uncertain terms, that if i EVER saw this man locked out again, that firstly, i would smash my way in to the place, to let him into, what is actually HIS home, and that secondly, then the next port of call would be the police station next door, where i would report them for abusing the poor chap... bye bye job, bye bye pension, hello jail....

He has not been locked out since... Yep, they can bully him, bullying me is not so easy...

john....
Thanks for sharing that John

KI know from my experiences of my son how difficult things can be. He didnt speak until he was 5 - cried all the time and got very frustrated. It took a long time to get a proper assessement done - he was 17 when he was properly diagnosed - now 25. He comes across as a young teenager and always has something very interesting to say to anyone regardless of wether they want to hear or not! He is now 25 and needs regular care but becoming more independent. He doesnt have a job as such - not that he isnt capable but the environment and the people around him who do not understand him are the problem. He is passionate about environmental issues and is a keen gardener. He volunteers to a local organisation that looks after the town gardens, flower beds, hanging baskets etc. The staff there know Paul and make sure he's OK and keep an eye on him.

He regularly fascinates his co workers with his Rubiks cube (which he can solve without looking at it!) he completes it in 39 seconds on a good day! He has an amazing memory and remembers dates, times, places, vast amounts of technical data - but can't tie his shoelaces

He is an incredible person - I know I am biased but most that know him would agree!

 
john, (App87),

I HOPE I am not speaking out of order.

As "you" know I was one of the few who know of your "condition".

I have a VERY, VERY MINOR appreciation of this condition due to 2 cousins of mine.

One has 2 degrees in abstract subjects, but has issues looking after himself day to day, the other is a specialist social worker, who actually CARES!

I DO NOT profess to be an expert, however, I do believe that given the right environment, as you have shown, people can flourish.

It is the difficulty of "normal" society to cope that poses the problems.

Perhaps REMPLOY should be expanded rather than disbanded to give people who have unrecognised talents to flourish, rather than be oppressed?

BTW, as I hope john (App87) understands, this is not a critical rant, it is me trying to say that there is a place for everyone, just because they are different, does not mean they can't be a part of society! ;)

Society needs to make a place for them to help though, rather than to help them!

 
Hi Revjames,

And thank YOU for sharing that with us... You say that your son "comes across" as a young teenager.

That is most interesting. As I myself am stuck at about 12, I am sure you know what i mean when i say this. Apparently, this sort of thing is very common, well, it would be given that Autism is a pervasive developmental disorder!!

Hi Paul.

Speaking out of turn!!! Ha ha, of course not....As with most things, you are quite correct....If only the world was composed of Fred Dibnah clones, i for one would be a lot better off. The "big" modern world does not suit us at all. A quiet orderly village type place, one where people supported each other, where everyone had there place, would be much better.

Now, to everyone else, i will explain a few things, as, all this is very complex to understand....

First off, is the stuck at 12 bit...

Autism is a "pervasive developmental disorder"

The "developmental disorder" bit, in basic, practical terms, means that ones emotional development basically comes to a halt. Most autistic kids are good in primary school, as primary school mainly rotates around learning "facts" Nearly all autistic kids fall apart when it comes to secondary school though. This is because secondary school is where you learn more on "how to be a person" as opposed to being basically an inanimate object taking on board facts. This is where it all goes wrong.....It is simply something you CANNOT do. You might be able to be taught to imitate the actions of others, but that is all, you will never understand them...[More on this later.]

The "pervasive" part, means that the disorder "pervades" all areas of your life...

As Paul said when discussing persons he knows "One has 2 degrees in abstract subjects, but has issues looking after himself day to day"

A lot of you might struggle to understand this;

How can you have a degree, and yet be unable to take care of yourself??

Well, one of the defining characteristics of autism, is what is known as "an uneven profile of abilities" You might be brilliant in a narrow chosen field of your own, but quite hopeless at applying this knowledge, or interacting with the outside world. You are in fact, as i said, trapped in your own little "goldfish bowl" world.

See it like this...You might have a very intelligent, well educated 8 year old. Would you expect them though, to be able to go out and deal with the outside world in the way that an adult would?? Of course not. But why not??? They might have the intelligence to do this, so what is the problem?? Simple, they have not developed enough in an EMOTIONAL sense, or have the social skills to be able to do this.

So, now you can see why a person, no matter how intelligent, that has a "pervasive developmental disorder" might be, [and usually is] quite unable to live independently..

Now then, the "more on this later bit" How is it that an autistic person cannot be taught, [but only to imitate] the way others act. Simple, in the same way, YOU will never [and i do not care if you ARE a consultant psychiatrist] understand how WE see things, or how OUR world is. But why??? Well. i will tell you...

Our brains are different to yours, they are actually physically different. Sooooooo. I will try to explain the differences as best i can.

We live in a three dimensional world yes??? If i asked you, or most five year olds to draw a "wire frame cube" [ok you would have to clarify this to a 5 year old] or any other simple 3 dimensional figure, they, or you, would draw one in only a few seconds. [it might take me ages!!!]

BUT, actually learned physicists assure us that we actually live in a FOUR dimensional world. [the fourth dimension being time] No matter how potty this seems to us all, who are we to argue with them...

Now then, supposing i asked you to draw a FOUR dimensional object....You could NEVER EVER do it. But why not??? Well, the human brain is designed and programmed to operate in THREE dimensions. This makes it quite impossible for you to visualise or indeed draw a four dimensional figure, you simply could not do it..

In the same way, a person with autism can never ever be taught how to be "normal" only to try to imitate the actions of normal people. In the same way, you will never be able to trully understand "OUR" world...

Finally, to all the idiots that might like to believe that Bill Gates is autistic, or any of the other like minded rubbish they might read in the paper, i have included the diagnostic criteria for Aspergers syndrome..

If you do NOT fit these criteria, you simply have not got Aspergers...

Autistic Disorder (DSM-IV-TR, 2000, p. 70)

A. 'A total of six (or more) items from (1), (2) and (3) with at least two from (1), and one each from (2) and (3):

Qualitative impairment in social interaction, as manifested by at least two of the following:

a. marked impairment in the use of multiple nonverbal behaviours such as eye-to-eye gaze, facial expression, body postures and gestures to regulate social interaction

b. failure to develop peer relationships appropriate to developmental level

c. a lack of spontaneous seeking to share enjoyment, interests or achievements with other people (e.g. by a lack of showing, bringing or pointing out objects of interest)

d. lack of social or emotional reciprocity.

2. Qualitative impairments in communication as manifested by at least one of the following:

a. delay in, or total lack of, the development of spoken language (not accompanied by an attempt to compensate through alternative modes of communication such as gesture or mime)

b. in individuals with adequate speech, marked impairment in the ability to initiate or sustain a conversation with others

c. stereotyped and repetitive use of language or idiosyncratic language

d. lack of varied, spontaneous make-believe play or social imitative play appropriate to developmental level.

3. Restricted repetitive and stereotyped patterns of behaviour, interests and activities, as manifested by at least one of the following:

a. encompassing preoccupation with one or more stereotyped and restricted patterns of interest that is abnormal either in intensity or focus

b. apparently inflexible adherence to specific, non-functional routines or rituals

c. stereotyped and repetitive motor mannerisms (e.g. hand or finger flapping or twisting, or complex whole-of-body movements)

d. persistent preoccupation with parts of objects.

B. Delays or abnormal functioning in at least one of the following areas, with onset prior to age 3 years: (1) social interaction, (2) language as used in social communication, or (3) symbolic or imaginative play.

C. The disturbance is not better accounted for by Rett's Disorder or Childhood Disintegrative Disorder.'

Hope this was not boring!!!!!!!

john

 
Well, reading this thread I do believe that I have learn't something or I even might have a very small understanding of the condition and how it affects the sufferer.

So thank you to RevJames and App87 for giving me this small insight into your world, I am full of admiration to people who suffer from any kind of condition who manage to function to the best of their ability on a day to day basis.

I wish you all the best.

 
John this is so familiar!

I havent been through the whole list but Paul scores 4 from 1 alone.

A typical example tonight in Tescos. Someone from the organisation Paul does volunteer gardening spots him and she says "Hi Paul - are you OK?" he replies "yes" and walks off in the opposite direction.

I had to explain that the polite response would have been "yes thanks - how are you?" he just does not do 'small talk' its better now at least he does give eye contact and is beginning to think about the concept of 'feelings'.

John, how do you manage on a day to day level - at work for example?

 
Thanks NozSpark.

That is a lovely thing to say......

john....

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Hi Revjames,

You say "John, how do you manage on a day to day level - at work for example?"

Not very well i am afraid....

I am fairly good at practical things, milling, turning, welding, etc Not entirely useless at electrical things either!! but, unfortunately, rather too crap with people to put my abilities to good use. I do like to learn things though.

I have not been very well for a while, so i have not put any effort into educating myself for a long time. I shall point out here that i never had an education, only primary school, nothing after that. Everything i can do i taught myself.

I did pass four years worth of city and guilds exams in one go though!! and had the best results the college had in 30 years, [not in electrical subjects though!] but there we are..

It may interest you all to learn that the aspergers person devotes their life to learning to some extent. You might want to know the light comes on....I want to know WHY it comes on.... [Ok, you lot probably want to know why it comes on too, but you know what i mean!!]

I learn German for fun for example, [when i am not too ill]

Something else you might like to think about... Everyone thinks that an aspergers person is "obsessed" with their own little subject.........I am not so sure.....I think it is more the case that, this subject is all they know.....From in the "goldfish bowl" the rest of what goes on in the world has escaped their..... I cannot think of the word here.......they have not noticed everything else in this world that is obvious everyone else.

For example; I myself did not realise "people" were actually people, until i was about 13, i did not actively think, but assumed they were mechanical things.

I can well remember a stormingly nice girl walking down the road, and me wondering where her spark plugs were, and then having to actually tell myself "No john, she is a girl, she does not have plugs"

I hope i do not sound to much of a loony here.....

If any of you met me though, you would not notice anything amiss... You would just think i was quiet, but inquisitive, [about technical things] and a fast learner.......

john....

 
omg, thats ace! talk about creative!!! and recycling saves loads of vhs tapes being tipped!

i dont know alot about autism, but kudos to both ur son Revjames, and you app87

 
Hi all,

Thank you everyone for your kind words and support. I am not doing so well today, quite ill actually, and should be at the day centre/hospital thingy, instead though, i have been talked into sorting out the wiring in a large factory that looks to have been installed by a load of chimps, chimps that is with miles of 70mm swa and 250 amp supplies.. Soooooo, big flash and what looks like lightening in the distance, and you know i got it wrong!!! Still, i always try to help others, not been paid for this mind, just trying to help others in the best way i can... I will be ok, so long as they just leave me alone to get on with it. No good with people see, oh and i have to sort a single lathe that does not go properly. Undersize wiring or start cap knackered me thinks.....

john...

 
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