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soulman

Snubber for led's

Question

soulman

Hi, Anyone help me with this please, I replaced GU10 halogens with GU10 5w led's in my hallway and the led's are flashing when switched off. I have installed these many times & never had this problem. I have searched the internet and it would appear that this happens with two way switching, which would explain why i have never had this happen before, as i generally install these in plastic clad ceilings within the bathroom area where the lighting is 1 way. My first question is does anyone know why this happens with 2 way switching? Also i need some help with the snubber what do i need? As i have a few different answers, such as a 240v rc suppressor, a capacitor & a resistor together, a capacitor on its own.

Cheers

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SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH

Do a search here for inductive. With standard household 2 way wiring, When the light is off, that switchline cable is running in parrallel with the live cables.This acts like a transformer and can induce a current (very very small) into the circuit. A normal tungstan lamp discharges this through the element but with low energy or some led's this small current is enough to charge up components like a capacitor and try to strike the lamps. Its not enough so they flicker.

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Steve3948

A Danlers CAPLOAD across load is cheapish at about

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revjames

or leave one of the GU10's with halogen in.

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soulman

Thank you for your replies, slip that is an excellent post & has helped me get my head around what is happening. Cheers Steve i shall the suppressor and capload & see what works. I have heard of the resload, i thought these were just for dimming problems.

Cheers

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soulman

Hi, Just to let you know how i got on, i purchased an rc supressor from maplins

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revjames

Quite simple really. Inductive reactance XL is cancelled out by Capacitive reactance XC. thats what I remember from BTEC days

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SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH

And in English that means .............. ? I will guess, the capacitor stores up the small inductive charge and the resistor slows the flow down even more so its not noticable.

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Sherlock Ohms

Where exactly in the circuit did you fit the device???

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soulman

Thank you, the device was fitted at the first downlight.

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robvanveen

Hi,

I posted a separate topic (which is very close to this topic) elsewhere on this website, and was encouraged to read and add to this topic, and I did.

I understand the logic of side-by-side wires creating a capacitor, which unloads using the (LED)-light: fine.

I fitted two 4W 240V LED GU10 lights in the downstairs hall (replacing two 240V CFL GU10 lights. Lights can be switched on/of from both upstairs and downstairs. So that ticks all the boxes of long parallel wires: and indeed, my lights flash to no end.

4W 240V lights means (I think) just under 17mA which is very little. Adding a gadget to be connected to both connectors of the lamp would fix the problem when the lamp is switched off, but would surely increase the energy consumption when it is on. And I would have thought that would then (partially) defeat the purpose of having low energy lamps.

Is this true, or is this additional current marginal compared to the 17mA?

Thanks,

Rob

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Ash

I always found the idea of leaving one with a halogen in counter-productive. We're installing LEDs so lighting is a fraction of the cost. leaving 1 50W bulb in when one set of LEDs can match that wattage, means you're effectively doubling your electricity usage on that set.

To think most small bedrooms would be lit by a 60W incandescent.

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NozSpark

I would have thought that a 100k ohms resistor fitted across the l&n of the lamp would sort it

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Steve3948

0.5 Watt so not too much to worry about, I don't think you will need to increase your direct debit to Electricity Supplier.

Cheaper than Danlers http://www.maplin.co.uk/contact-suppressor-498

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robvanveen

I re-phrased it: 12.5% increase. "so not too much to worry about"

Doesn't sound right, does it?

That is exactly the issue I was trying to flag-up: 0.5W increase IS a lot when compared to 4W.

Is there not a more energy efficient way?

Rob

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NozSpark

Yes there is,,, but it will only work with 1 way switching with loop at the switch

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SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH

Or wire via a relay/contactor, but that will cost more than any energy savings

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SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH

Or wire via a relay/contactor, but that will cost more than any energy savings

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steptoe

I have one for you clever folks,

when the lights are on, 10 x 4w LEDs , or even if its just half the bank,

when the mrs is using her hair straighteners they will flicker off every so often, I guessing when the thermostat kicks,

whats the problem?

does anyone have a simple fix or do I need to get a proper sparky in,? :|

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Sharpend

She shouldn't be using the light circuit to plug her straighteners in!

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steptoe

its one of those naughty BC adaptors! :o

its actually a double socket about 8" away from a 4g switch [2way] ,2banks of LED[6+4] and 2 outside lights,

the socket is on a different RCD to the lighting circuit, the LEDs are on a completely seperate circuit of their own from any other lights, as are the outside lights.

Ive tried different makes of LEDs, in fact, there are at least 3 different types installed at the minute and it makes no difference.

:C

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Sidewinder

Electronic noise Steps, put a scope on it, bet there is a huge switching spike, straighteners using solid state switching I bet, & in the N conductor too I'd vouch, check it and see.

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steptoe

that was what I thought sidey,

but why does it only affect the LEDs?

no affect if she uses them upstairs etc, with the bedroom lights, mixture of normal and compact florries.

or is it a case of this socket wiring being run beside the lighting cables? probably only about 1" away, studded wall.

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Sidewinder

Switching spikes & back emf can reach kV levels at 24V!

Think of the induced noise in the adjacent cables, remembering the LED's are sensitive electronic devices too.

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steptoe

oh, if nowt can be done she will just have to put up with it,

or stop using the bloody things in the kitchen..........

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Ash

Ok similar one. In my own house, turning off the loft light (T8 tube) will make my subwoofer on my sound system thud.

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