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Bart V

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Hello,

I'm currently doing one of those faster learning, change of career courses that proper electricians despise so and need help with a question on my last assessment. Before the abuse begins, I should explain that I have valid reasons for doing this type of course and am under no illusions about what it is actually going to offer me once I have finished. I regard it as the start of the journey, not the be all and end all of the journey like some seem to. I am fully aware that I won't be a "proper" electrician at the end of it, but it will get me a step on the ladder and put me in a position to gain some useful experience. I've also passed every exam and assessment without help so far and its only at this last hurdle I find myself stumped.

One of the problems with these sort of courses is the people who rep for the companies. They try to fill peoples heads with tales of getting your qualifications and instantly starting your own business which will be successful because the company will give you all the knowledge and skills you need. Which of course is utter tosh. Anyone in a similar position to me who is reading this don't be under any illusions. I'm not saying its impossible, but you need to be realistic about what skills you can actually learn with the limited practical time you will have (I've seen some people on the various practical sessions I have done who would be dangerous if they ever get qualified, so approach it with the right attitude). And also approach your studies not with the aim of passing the exams (these courses aim to teach you where to look in your books to have a stab at an educated guess), but with the aim of passing the exams and actually knowing why you get the answers you do.

Its maybe that they are trying to make people believe they will be successful small businesses that they include the type of questions below in their syllabus but I am not entirely sure the relevance to being a working domestic installer which is perhaps why I can't seem to get my head round the question.

The question is this: State how the electrical contractor for this installation may minimise costs, with particular reference to:

a) cash flow

b) efficient use of labour resources

c) effective inspection and testing.

I'm not a businessman and there was no financial management element to my studies so I can only make guesses.

For cash flow I have along the lines of ensuring a good account is held with a wholesaler and making sure payment from the customer is received before the account is due with the wholesaler. Charging a mark up on purchased materials, charging for sundries and ensuring that there is enough credit the business account to allow for unforeseen circumstances.

For labour I have, ensure that there are only enough people on site to cover the work to be done and that the right skills are on site for the jobs at hand

For effective inspection and testing I haven't got much beyond making sure the right equipment is available and calibrated.

These seem like overly simplistic answers to these questions, or maybe I am over thinking it. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

PS. Sorry for the long post, I do like to waffle once I get going.

 
Hello,

I'm currently doing one of those faster learning, change of career courses that proper electricians despise so and need help with a question on my last assessment. Before the abuse begins, I should explain that I have valid reasons for doing this type of course and am under no illusions about what it is actually going to offer me once I have finished. I regard it as the start of the journey, not the be all and end all of the journey like some seem to. I am fully aware that I won't be a "proper" electrician at the end of it, but it will get me a step on the ladder and put me in a position to gain some useful experience. I've also passed every exam and assessment without help so far and its only at this last hurdle I find myself stumped.

One of the problems with these sort of courses is the people who rep for the companies. They try to fill peoples heads with tales of getting your qualifications and instantly starting your own business which will be successful because the company will give you all the knowledge and skills you need. Which of course is utter tosh. Anyone in a similar position to me who is reading this don't be under any illusions. I'm not saying its impossible, but you need to be realistic about what skills you can actually learn with the limited practical time you will have (I've seen some people on the various practical sessions I have done who would be dangerous if they ever get qualified, so approach it with the right attitude). And also approach your studies not with the aim of passing the exams (these courses aim to teach you where to look in your books to have a stab at an educated guess), but with the aim of passing the exams and actually knowing why you get the answers you do.

Its maybe that they are trying to make people believe they will be successful small businesses that they include the type of questions below in their syllabus but I am not entirely sure the relevance to being a working domestic installer which is perhaps why I can't seem to get my head round the question.

The question is this: State how the electrical contractor for this installation may minimise costs, with particular reference to:

a) cash flow

b) efficient use of labour resources

c) effective inspection and testing.

I'm not a businessman and there was no financial management element to my studies so I can only make guesses.

The installation is what....new build / alteration / rewire / domestic / comercial / industrial / lived or unoccupied.

All are relevant for example more time will be used in an occupied rewire.

For cash flow I have along the lines of ensuring a good account is held with a wholesaler and making sure payment from the customer is received before the account is due with the wholesaler. Charging a mark up on purchased materials, charging for sundries and ensuring that there is enough credit the business account to allow for unforeseen circumstances.

Dont forget you will need to cover overheads such as ; insurance/fuel/scheme membership.......little things that you pay for during the year, so knowing your minimum day rate to cover these things before any profit is made might be worth you knowing.

How about stage payments for larger jobs.

Not using one supplier, play a couple off against each other.

ensure you are not trying to do to many jobs across different sites in one go if you have limited man power/finances

Apart from that your points are good.

For labour I have, ensure that there are only enough people on site to cover the work to be done and that the right skills are on site for the jobs at hand

ensure you are not trying to do to many jobs across different sites

Good

For effective inspection and testing I haven't got much beyond making sure the right equipment is available and calibrated.

Not much more that can be said....maybe

Dead testing to be undertaken during first fix where possible as a time saving exercise.

suitably competent person to undertake test inspection.

These seem like overly simplistic answers to these questions, or maybe I am over thinking it. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

PS. Sorry for the long post, I do like to waffle once I get going.
My thoughts are in red & good luck with the course, at least you seem to appreciate it isnt as simple as; handing over a large wad of cash sit a few weeks of "this is how all circuits are wired" sit this simple exam............congrats your a spark now go into the wide world and be right out of your depth.

 
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Thanks M107, some really good pointers, much appreciated.

The job spec given is a first floor extension over a garage, with dedicated lighting and final power circuits. The rest of the house is to remain occupied.

As for going out into the wide world out of my depth.....most definitely. But then I am hoping the realisation that that is the case is what might just make me work harder to be a better installer than some of the guys I've seen on the course who think their shiny new C&G certificate is all they will ever need. Only time will tell.

 
with a job spec like that, how much do they teach you?

It might be a simple case of add the new circuits to the existing consumer unit which is already up to current standards, and all earth bonding is in place and correct.

However a very much more likely scenario is that it's an old rewireable fuse box, no bonding to water and gas, and substandard meter tails and dubious earthing.  Does your course teach you how to proceed if that's the case and how to advise your client? Does it even teach you about old wiring methods so you recognise them?

So the important thing from that, is BEFORE estimating (I never give quotes, just estimates) have a look at the existing installation to get a picture for what upgrades will be needed, or how you will achieve compliance for the work you are doing, starting from what is there already.  The time to find nasty surprises is before you give your estimate, not on the day you go to start the job.

So make sure you understand the FULL extent of the work needed and estimate accordingly.  Better to lose a job because your price was too high, than to lose money on a job because you got it wrong.

P.S Congratulations on realising the limitations of the route you are taking. Understanding what's involved is the first step to achieving it. With that approach you should go a long way.

 
The question is this: State how the electrical contractor for this installation may minimise costs, with particular reference to:

a) cash flow

b) efficient use of labour resources

c) effective inspection and testing.
A) cashflow to me would be about timing of payments rather than the total cost, so I would be thinking along the lines of staged payments.

B) is it you are employing someone? qualified and experienced to carry out works they are being asked to do, clear written instructions / plans to follow.

C) following correct testing sequence fully, to save undoing work completed if it hasnt been tested. 

 
Thanks for the responses.

ProDave - As you can no doubt imagine the course is limited in what it teaches you about real world situations. Beyond standard colours and British Standards you don't get much in the way of old wiring systems and how to deal with them S or customers. You get directions on how to pass the exams first and foremost. Though to be fair to the tutors I've had they do try to give as much practical advice in the short time they get with you as they can, but the main bulk of the course is so you pass the exam, whether you understand how you have done it or not. I've made a real effort to try to understand everything I have done so far, but got stumped on this because I haven't really geared myself up for this aspect of it, thinking this is the sort of stuff that comes with experience.

Going back to the question, with the spec provided they do elaborate. I didn't want to type it all out here as the post would have been even longer. Basically it is an old consumer unit with rewireable fuses that are to be replaced with type B BS EN 60898 fuses and the extension will be fed from 2 free ways in the existing consumer unit. There is no mention of earth bonding.

 
So old colours are not taught any more?  :C

What does one of these "graduates" do when asked to fault find a light circuit, removes a switch and finds Red, Yellow and Blue?  What does he think each one does?

 
The question is this: State how the electrical contractor for this installation may minimise costs, with particular reference to:

a) cash flow

b) efficient use of labour resources

c) effective inspection and testing.

a)Cashflow is basically the same for any type of business..

If you consider an example from big business...  say a car manufacturing plant or a supermarket...

Cash flow is minimized by only having manufacturing materials / products to sell on the production line or shelf for the minimum amount of time...

e.g.  you don't want your raw materials hanging around for days on end...

e.g. one idea world scenario is .. materials collected day one.. fitted day two.. paid for day three...

No dead stock sitting on the shelf... keep your stock earning you money not gathering dust..

BUT...

the flip side to that is...

you don't want to be out of stock of some basics that then hold up the Job!!!

OR if doing maintenance work..

you don't what to have to keep leaving site to go and fetch another junction box because you have run out!!!!

b)

Labour resources..  whether it is yourself or employees...

GOLDEN rule within this trade is you don't want to be held up from work by waiting for other trades to complete...

or you don't want work made harder because someone has boxed in some area you need to access!!

e.g. with sockets on a stud wall:-   get in after the stud work has gone up but before both side are plaster boarded!!

too soon you are waiting around with nothing to do..

to late the job takes longer!!

c)

Don't go fixing things that you know you need to disconnect or strap out again for testing..

e.g.

dimmers, LV transformers, RCD's and Neons that could cause erroneous results to your testing!

 
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