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"new" Bakelite Ceiling Pendants


chris_k

Question

Evening. On a second fix of a rewire ive been given these to install at all lighting drops

 

http://www.art-deco-emporium.co.uk/lighting/lighting-accessories/authentic-styled-bakelite-ceiling-rose-in-deep-rich-brown

 

Now, to be honest they look and feel rather flimsy (crap), have  2 bare touchable terminals and not of very good quality, 

They are obviously just repros taken from a cast of an original bakalite fitting and the only markings are 3A and 250v. No BS number or CE marking.

 

Now to cover myself what kind of info should i ask the above seller for to guarantee these things are safe to install?

Would a product like this have to be subject to CE approval.

 

If it makes any difference i have to make up the pendant sets from the various components (Pendant base, cloth covered wire, BC lamp bases)

 

Ta

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Those things only ever had two terminals  as I remember ,  do these have an earth terminal and a loop terminal etc?

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omgcat.jpg

I did say "sort of"!

Not arshed at present as i have other more pressing matters to attend to!

But the reason it did not work wasquite simple to cure once we found it....

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But the reason it did not work wasquite simple to cure once we found it....

 

please dont say you had not switched it on?!

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please dont say you had not switched it on?!

Arshe.....how did you know that??

It was similar to that...

ESPLUS only "works" on Safari. Could get it to work on laptop ....not ipad!

Apparently Safari has TWO privacy settings....one in SETTINGS and the other within a "icon" on the search bar.

Second, less obvious one, was set to private. This handles cookies differently. Chris Pym from IET spotted it when we sat my ipad next to his and copied every move one at a time. Top bar was a different colour in his to. mine.... Dark grey as opposed to black

Simples,when you know how

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The fittings were bought by the client, along with braided flex and lampholders. Ive got to make all the pendant sets up as the drops are all different. Great!

The fittings have only 2 terminals, just 2 bits of brass screwed to the fitting. These terminals are bare when the cover is unscrewed. There was a bag of wagos included though!

Im gonna email the seller tomorrow and ask for evidence of what current BS number they conform to. Evidence of any type testing carried out on the fitting. Any CE certification.

I spoke the the NICEIC helpline. They said ask for all of the above to cover yourself as much as possible

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I would also check out any approvals for the braided flex as well.

It may be BASEC approved , it may have a BS nmber.......or,should i say...."it may have a BS number or the word BASEC stamped on it"

I would be covering my maximus gluteus as much as possible OR I Would not be touching it with a faeces encrusted tree branch

Just advising

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looking at the braided flex page http://www.art-deco-emporium.co.uk/period-wire it says "British made, Rayon braided, triple twisted flex specifically designed for period style restoration work on lighting and electrical appliances.
This beautiful decorative product is cosmetically identical to flexes made over eighty years ago but with the advantage of being 100% compliant to today's exacting national and international standards."

Which sounds good, but T&Cs say "We do not warrant that product descriptions or other content of this site is accurate, complete, reliable, current, or error-free. If a product offered in our website is not as described, your sole remedy is to return it in unused condition."

The T&Cs also limit any liability to "USD2,000 or the total price of the subject products paid or payable to you whichever is less."

I would advise clients to read the T&Cs and return the goods within 14 days.

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It's a shame this came up at 2nd fix as earlier on you could perhaps have terminated and clamped a compliant high temp flex in a recessed, below floor accessible or MF ceiling box and just run the cable down through these. I think the switches are a bigger problem ...

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Ive had no response from the website after asking for details of BS compliance, type testing and all that. The client doesnt want to risk it so they're going back (if they can).

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Ive had no response from the website after asking for details of BS compliance, type testing and all that. The client doesnt want to risk it so they're going back (if they can).

 

That sounds to me like the best solution without any evidence of meeting all applicable current safety standards. They possibly may well be all above board and compliant, 

but unfortunately in the current age of internet trading, it is possible to make a very professional looking website selling counterfeit or unsafe goods. If in doubt it is always best to step back, especially where electrical safety is relevant.

 

Doc H.

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You say given.

By whom?

Just get whomever has "given" them to you to write you a letter stating that they comply with the requirements of current standards and legislation and that you are absolved of any and all liability for their installation and you are fine.

If they are not confident enough to do that, then should they really be used?...

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If there is no bs or ce would that affect your insurance?

I'd say no and have done when presented with ching chong rubbish with no markings or paperwork.

was asked to replace a pull cord the other day... All ceramic and bakerlite, very very well made! wasn't broken either. customer didn't like it, it looked old.

:)

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I knew I should have been a millionare by now!

FFS i must have smashed thousands of them to weigh in the brass over the past century.

Ah well, looking for the next money maker that will be taken Up by the gullible!

Got it!

Old knackered wylex and British Calendar metal fuse boards!.....trust me, they WILL come back into fashion. I'd Give it about 6 1/2 months

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I've got a brown bakerlite 13A socket somewhere.  I'll give it a polish and put it on ebay I think.

 

There's a house I know that's still got all the original bakerlite stuff. The old owner refuses a rewire (he's in his 90's) and says his daughter can have all the hassle of that when he's gone.

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Somewhere i have an old, but brand new never used, MK Ivory surface cooker unit complete with onboard 13A fuse for the 15A 3 pin socket

Just saying

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Evening. On a second fix of a rewire ive been given these to install at all lighting drops

 

http://www.art-deco-emporium.co.uk/lighting/lighting-accessories/authentic-styled-bakelite-ceiling-rose-in-deep-rich-brown

 

Now, to be honest they look and feel rather flimsy (crap), have  2 bare touchable terminals and not of very good quality, 

They are obviously just repros taken from a cast of an original bakalite fitting and the only markings are 3A and 250v. No BS number or CE marking.

 

Now to cover myself what kind of info should i ask the above seller for to guarantee these things are safe to install?

Would a product like this have to be subject to CE approval.

 

If it makes any difference i have to make up the pendant sets from the various components (Pendant base, cloth covered wire, BC lamp bases)

 

Ta

 

 

Toward the beginning of Section 559 of the regs it states that luminaries should comply with relevant standards for manufacture and test. A lighting industry trade association offers this guidance for people wanting to design or manufacture light fittings. http://www.thelia.org.uk/files/docs/is-your-lighting-safe-1362063663.pdf So as Sidewinder suggest using Section 559 and this guidance, ask your supplier to verify in writing how these fittings meet the current standards.  Remember deviations and departures are permitted from BS7671 providing that it can be proved to be no less safe than if it did comply with BS7671. This is covered in the opening chapters 12 & 13.

 

Doc H. 

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And since i have the new digi version sort of working, here for your delectation

559.5.1 Connection to the fixed wiring

At each fixed lighting point one of the following shall be used for the termination of the wiring system:

(i) A ceiling rose to BS 67

(ii) A luminaire supporting coupler to BS 6972 or BS 7001

(iii) A batten lampholder or a pendant set to BS EN 60598

(iv) A luminaire to BS EN 60598

(v) A suitable socket-outlet to BS 1363-2, BS 546 or BS EN 60309-2

(vi) A plug-in lighting distribution unit to BS 5733

(vii) A connection unit to BS 1363-4

(viii) Appropriate terminals enclosed in a box complying with the relevant part of BS EN 60670 series or BS 4662

(ix) A device for connecting a luminaire (DCL) outlet according to BS IEC 61995-1

(x) An installation coupler BS EN 61535.

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And since i have the new digi version sort of working, here for your delectation

 

omgcat.jpg

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