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Unprotected Cables In Storage Area


fatbob88

Question

fatbob88

Hi folks another little issue has cropped up to do with electrics and would like a bit of advice from you good folk here please.

 

I live in a first floor purpose built maisonette if you count the ground floor as just that. There are four maisonettes in the block, two on the first floor and two on the ground. They were built in the late 50's, you could easily mistake the block for a couple of semi detached houses other than the street doors are on the sides of the building. One near the front of the block and the other about half way along. The same on the other side of the building. Being a maisonette there are no communal areas. My door is the one near the front of the building. There is a cupboard under my stairs at the side of the building between my door and the downstairs maisonettes front door. It was formerly a space to keep the bins pre wheelie bin days. The old bins are gone so it's now used as a shared storage space.

 

The leaseholder downstairs had a major refurb done last year including a full rewire. A group of east europeans do the job led by the electrician who is also from that neck of the woods. Before the refurb took place I spoke to my new neighbour who was a first time buyer and stressed that he would need to comply with part P of the building regulations and informed him he would need to have a gas safe registered engineer for any gas work. 

 

Right that's enough of the back ground to the story. Here's the meat. Shortly after the refurb I discovered there are a number of cables protruding through the storage cupboard wall near to a shelf were I keep some garden equipment. Sheers small hand spades etc. My lawnmower is in there on the floor an its covered with bits of brick and brick dust. Behind the wall is the area where his meter and consumer unit reside. He has seen this but he's not in the least bothered, did not even bother to offer to clean up the mess. When I asked him if he had a part P electrician do the job he said he'd had an electrical inspector out who passed the work. When I asked him what competent persons scheme the inspector was qualified under he went all vague and said "oh I don't remember, something with a lot of letters"

 

Can someone advise me whether the cables should have been left like this and what is the best course of action?

 

Thank you 

 

Cables%20in%20shared%20Storage%20Cupboar

 

Cables%20in%20shares%20Storage%20Cupboar

 

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fatbob88

My local authorities'  websites does n't have anything on if you think someone is not complying with building regs. All it has is a facility to report dangerous buildings... looks like it's aimed at derelict commercial premises. Gas Safe asks you for the name of the contractor that did the job! I think you've got to go through them first for them to prove there is non compliance before they pass on to HSE to take action.

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Murdoch

Send the photos you have posted to the Landlord and put it in their hands....

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Evans Electric

It's a bit concerning for me that I am living above a maisonette which has been rewired and has had a gas combi boiler fitted the work of which may not have been done by a member of a competent persons scheme or been subject to the LABC officers approval i.e. maybe in contravention of the building regs.

 

I have always taken health and safety issues seriously and consider it foolish to not comply with building regulations. After all they are there to protect everyone although nowadays it could be argued that some aspects of them are a little bit overboard.  

 

Surely, if I inform the LABC they will have the power to investigate and serve notice on the leaseholder to force him/her to put things right? 

Don't think you'll get anywhere with the electric bit ,  but  fitting gas appliances when  unqualified to do so is a big no-no .

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fatbob88

Send the photos you have posted to the Landlord and put it in their hands....

I am the landlord, as well as a leaseholder 

Don't think you'll get anywhere with the electric bit ,  but  fitting gas appliances when  unqualified to do so is a big no-no .

Thanks Evans, that sounds like it will be a more productive route. Having said that I think it might be time to consult my solicitor in view of what Murdoch said above.

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kerching

Mention ...."intermittent smell,of gas"..........and NOT from your property

They will,be around faster than Rolf in Mothercare

No offence

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Murdoch

I am the landlord, as well as a leaseholder 

 

 

So you are the single landlord? What do the lease documents say about such issues?

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fatbob88

Mention ...."intermittent smell,of gas"..........and NOT from your property

They will,be around faster than Rolf in Mothercare

No offence

What a good suggestion! Thanks

So you are the single landlord? What do the lease documents say about such issues?

No mention of compliance to building regs as the leases are from 1956 so will probably have to look at the relevant act. 

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Andy™

not the best install method, but providing they are not likely to be damaged etc etc, then its not against any regs. its not really any different to them coming from the bit at the bottom, clipped to the wall to further up then taken through

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NozSpark

Is this a shared space, yours or the ground floor owners?

If it's shared then tell them that they should think about boxing in the cables as they might get damaged.

If it's yours then you would be quite within your rights to get them to 'Re-route the cables through their property and put right any damage to yours.

If it's theirs then move your stuff out and forget about it..

HTH

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fatbob88

Thanks for the replies Andy and NozSpark.

 

Nice to know it's compliant. It's a shared cupboard Noz, I've taken you recommendation on board, thanks again.

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ProDave

Where do they eventually come out? further down the wall on that "stepped in" bit? or into another space accessed from somewhere else?

 

My guess is they did not intend them to pop out there. they were clearly drilling a hole down (or up) at a steep angle hoping to get from A to B and it broke out at that ledge.

 

Since "clipped direct" is an acceptable installation method then I don't see an issue other than it doesn't look very nice. But I would not say it's dangerous.

 

It's probably a good thing they did pop out though as you now know they are there and you won't drill a hole directly above or below them to fix a shelf to now will you?  If they had just misses that ledge, they could be a few mm inside the wall and you would not know until you came to drill the hole for that shelf........

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fatbob88

Thanks for your input ProDave. 

 

I think they come from the output side of his consumer unit and then go into the chased bit of the wall above and then off to the individual circuits, cooker, ring main lighting etc etc  

 

Below the shelf, if you can call it that, is the recess which forms a cupboard in the neighbours hallway where his meter and consumer unit reside. Why it was necessary for the cables to stick through I don't know. You would have thought they would have been clipped to the wall of the back of the cupboard before they went up through the chased out wall. He had all the wiring embedded in the walls and all the walls re-plastered, even had the ceilings skimmed as well.

 

Anyway, I used to throw my garden shears up on that shelf when I was finished with them. Perhaps not such a good idea if I can't get him to get them boxed in!

 

There is a wood shelf already above that one and no space for any more so no danger of drilling into the cables.

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no wonder where a nation of winging society now if your really worried about it then tack a piece of board over if storing stuf on there other wise dont loose sleep over a couple of cable showing cause if it was a storage cupboard i use it wouldnt concern me as clipped direct is ok

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fatbob88

Well.... Badger, I didn't expect anyone coming along implying that I was a whinger, that was uncalled for. It's a shame to spoil your post since your suggestion of "tacking a piece of board over" was helpful and contributed to the discussion, thank you.

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kerching

Bit of cement, half a dozen or so bricks and "brick,it in". Does not have to look good....just has to stop cables getting "prematurely pruned"

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Murdoch

Call me old fashioned BUT I don't think that ANY cables from a self contained unit should be in communal areas unless its a central meter/supply cupboard.

 

You should write to the landlord enclosing your photo's

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Nowt to worry about, although  I would get something like a 75mm x 75mm trunking, cut some of the back of it and attach it to the wall over the cables if you see what  I mean, 10 minute job, all looks good and safe.

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Sharpend

Why not run a piece of baton timber up each end of the wall attach a piece of ply, put some screws/hooks/nails in to hang you garden bits on, Job done, forget about the cables they'll be hidden and carry on regardless?!

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ProDave

If they drilled from one part of the other flat, and came out in a recessed cupboard, they genuinely may not even be aware they broke through into "next door"

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Evans Electric

Good job they're not a bit longer ....someone might go & fit a Junction box to one of them and tap into the guy's leccy ...that wouldn't do would it ?

 

No one else will do anything Fatblob so why not fix something over them if you think yhey may be damaged .  The eastern Europeans won't be iinterested , they have no respect for your property etc.

 

And you can bet 100%  that the rewire was done on the cheap,  by cheap labour and as you know , if you pay shytte you get shytte.    And Part P,  or Competent Persons Schemes  or testing & certifying the work   would have never entered into the equation.  

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kerching

And......if they were from an Eastern european country then their Par P scam name would indeed have a lot of letters in it...mainly Ws Xs Ys and Zs at a guess

There again....I am not a proper Electrician

No offence

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fatbob88

Good job they're not a bit longer ....someone might go & fit a Junction box to one of them and tap into the guy's leccy ...that wouldn't do would it ?

 

No one else will do anything Fatblob so why not fix something over them if you think yhey may be damaged .  The eastern Europeans won't be iinterested , they have no respect for your property etc.

 

And you can bet 100%  that the rewire was done on the cheap,  by cheap labour and as you know , if you pay shytte you get shytte.    And Part P,  or Competent Persons Schemes  or testing & certifying the work   would have never entered into the equation.  

Funny you should say that, in the few meaningful conversations I've had with my neighbour, price seems to be the only consideration with every thing to him. He's an indian chap and I used to work with some indians who thought that the more money you make and keep in this life the more you have in the next life. That would explain his disposition.

 

 When the sparky was here doing the work a caught him and I asked how much he would charge for installing a new consumer unit in my place. He gave two prices, (this was the back end of last year) I don't remember the first price although I think it was £150 or £250 but I remember the last price was £500. He said the first price was if I did not want a certificate and the second was with a certificate. I did n't think that there was a choice, I thought all worked was supposed to be certificated unless you're getting the LA building control officer to sign it off? 

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Sharpend

Well there you go! Everyday's a school day :)

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Murdoch

Funny you should say that, in the few meaningful conversations I've had with my neighbour, price seems to be the only consideration with every thing to him. He's an indian chap and I used to work with some indians who thought that the more money you make and keep in this life the more you have in the next life. That would explain his disposition.

 

 When the sparky was here doing the work a caught him and I asked how much he would charge for installing a new consumer unit in my place. He gave two prices, (this was the back end of last year) I don't remember the first price although I think it was £150 or £250 but I remember the last price was £500. He said the first price was if I did not want a certificate and the second was with a certificate. I did n't think that there was a choice, I thought all worked was supposed to be certificated unless you're getting the LA building control officer to sign it off? 

 

I think you are getting Certification and Notification mixed up - these are seperate but both necessary.

 

Each and every CU change should be done with an Electrical Installation Certificate (EIC) provided by the sparky doing the work.

 

Unless you live in Scotland or Northern Ireland compliance of Part P is necessary and this is the Notification - and if the sparky wasn't registered with a scheme his £500 (cough) could have included the fee to LABC for the inspection!

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fatbob88

If they drilled from one part of the other flat, and came out in a recessed cupboard, they genuinely may not even be aware they broke through into "next door"

Yes Dave, I would give them the benefit of the doubt there, it's a distinct possibility. What I was n't happy about was my neighbours indifferent attitude to it and not offering to clean his sparky's mess up. I don't think he would n't have called his sparky back as he is very friendly with him and he lives about thirty miles away.

 

Having said that, his gas engineer left the flue of his combi boiler spewing the exhaust emissions across the rear elevation of the building. Depending on which way the wind was blowing the fumes could enter either my open bathroom window or second bedroom if the window was open or the same windows below in my neighbours flat. I complained to the young fellow that was putting the flew in and asked him for his gas safe number. He told me that he was not working on gas but worked for a company that was gas safe registered. He then got on his mobile phone speaking in his east European language and when he came off he said his boss would give me the number next time he was here. No boss turned up.  Within a couple of hours of complaining about the fumes to my neighbour the next morning his sparky turned up to fit an extension on the flue to divert it away at ninety degrees to the building!! That is the sparky that appeared to be the project manager of the refurb.

 

Thanks for all the replies, I've ran out of scoobs so sorry to those I've missed.

I think you are getting Certification and Notification mixed up - these are seperate but both necessary.

 

Each and every CU change should be done with an Electrical Installation Certificate (EIC) provided by the sparky doing the work.

 

Unless you live in Scotland or Northern Ireland compliance of Part P is necessary and this is the Notification - and if the sparky wasn't registered with a scheme his £500 (cough) could have included the fee to LABC for the inspection!

Thanks Murdoch... hmmmm

 

I asked the sparky for his business card and he did not have one, nor did he have an email address or website. When I asked him his name he said xxxxx (don't want to post it here). When I asked him if that was his first name or last name he said that's all you'll need and gave me a mobile number.

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