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Recording Studio


cueball1978

Question

Hi there

 

I am going to look at a job this week in a recording studio where they say the lighting is interfering with the audio equipment.

 

I was wondering if anyone has done any work in a similar place and has any advice on what fittings/lamps should be used.

 

Many thanks in advance

 

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23 answers to this question

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The EMC directive is just another shambles.

 

I was working in machine design when it came in and it caused our company a lot of headaches and a lot of expense to comply. More accuratly to prove we complied as very little actually changed.

 

How many prosecutions do you see?

 

What would trading standards actually DO if you go and tell them the LED lamp you have just bought with a CE sticker on it kills the FM or DAB reception in your house?

 

What are YOU as en electrician fitting these things supposed to do?  Test it in an actedited EMC test facility or just accept it has a CE mark so it must be okay?

 

It started out with good intentions but has become a largely unpoliced bit of legislation.

 

Much of what comes from China has a CE mark. Much of that is freely on sale in the UK, not just from ebay. Much of that is damn right dangerous as well as casing interference. But what is actually done? not a lot it would seem.

 

As long as we stick to buying goods from a reputable supplier, then the best we can hope for if they cause interference is to return them for a refund.  If they get lots of returns they might switch product, perhaps?

You might remember an old thread i started,

 

Commercial equipment on 230V plugs bought new had issues and no CE mark.

 

The outcome was the CE mark system is voluntary and the customer couldnt do a lot regarding it not having one. (customer did get refund over other issues)

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CE marking is NOT voluntary.

It is covered by the EU CE marking directive, and ANY product that falls under ANY of the "New Approach" directives, such as the MD, the LVD or the EMCD, MUST be CE marked and comply with both the CE & the applicable underlying directive.

It's not an option it is statute law, end of story.

It is enshrined in UK statute law and breaking it is a criminal offence punishable by fines and imprisonment, of both specific individual responsible employees, certain "controlling" minds within the organisation and the company itself.

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That is what i thought Sidewinder.

 

This is a copy of the email that was sent,

 

(extract from this thread   http://talk.electricianforum.co.uk/topic/26396-advice-on-imported-chinese-machinery-with-no-documentation/  )

 

 

 

I pointed him towards that link thanks Canoe, and they way i read it i thought it would have to have CE mark. When he contacted BSI they told him it did not have to have it. He spoke on phone and this is email they sent him.

 

BSI publishes and sells British Standards, which are intended as codes of practice and are published for voluntary use. Whilst these might support UK legislation and regulation, they have in themselves no regulatory status. Therefore the application of a standard is a contractual matter between the parties concerned, unless mandated by national or European regulation.
 
The company may not have been working to British Standards. I would recommend contacting the company to ascertain which, if any, standards they were working to.
 
If you feel there is an issue with poor installation or quality, please contact the Citizens Advice Consumer Service. They provide free, confidential and impartial advice on consumer issues.  
 
In cases of reported criminal behaviour, for example, scams, unsafe goods and rogue traders, the Citizens Advice consumer service will refer your details to the relevant local authority trading standards service who will  decide on what to do next.
 
You can look on www.adviceguide.org.uk or call the Citizens Advice consumer helpline on 08454 04 05 06.
 
Unfortunately we are not able to give interpretations or advice on technical requirements in standards, as we do not have the technical expertise within the Knowledge Centre or BSI.  The committee members who develop standards are representatives of various professional bodies and associations and they do not actually work for BSI.
It is the responsibility of the user to decide exactly what it is saying, informed, if necessary, by professional advice or the informed opinion of others working in the same field.  Please see FAQs (frequently asked questions) on our website for further information.
 
Please be aware that British Standards are published for voluntary use. Whilst these might support UK legislation and regulation, they have in themselves no regulatory status.  BSI Standards Limited is not a regulatory or government body. Therefore the application of a standard is a contractual matter between the parties concerned, unless mandated by national or European regulation. You can find further information about UK legislation at http://www.opsi.gov....legislation.htm and European legislation at http://eur-lex.europa.eu/en/index.htm.
 
You might also wish to seek guidance from a trade or professional association or other suitably qualified professional.
 
This link provides a lot of background information on CE marking: http://www.bsigroup....sked-questions/
 
Please let me know if you require any further clarification or information about this and I will be happy to help.


he later got this email.

 

 

 

Thank you for your recent enquiry regarding CE marking and supply of machinery which has been passed through to HSE's Product Safety Unit.
 
If you have a concern that the equipment you refer to does not comply with UK law, HSE website hse.gov.uk/work-equipment-machinery/report-defective-product gives advice on how to report defective work equipment or machinery.
 
In relation to this my colleague Roger Upfold would be happy to speak with you, if you could forward your contact telephone number he will try to contact you either later on today or during the coming week.

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Pewter,

There is nothing in you quotes to say that CE marking is optional.

CE marking is totally different to compliance with British Standards.

If you actually read what you have quoted, they actually state that there are regulations from machinery.

If you look at the BSi page of FAQ's on CE marking, you will see in the first paragraph that BSi state it is compulsory.

Take a machine for use in a factory, this will be covered by the MD.

The MD is enacted into UK law by th SMSR's.

Regulations are statute law, think EAWR.

The MD requires CE marking.

QED.

CE marking is required under UK law.

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Sidewinder I value your opinion more then the people who spoke to my friend.

What I am highlighting is that when someone was sold equipment with no markings or documents, he couldn't get back up to help his case against the seller.

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It is possible to get HSE interested, but, you would have to start putting the case together for them to start on, which would involve consultant fees that might not be recovered.

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give them torches?

 

 

 

could be control gear giving off too much interference. try disconnecting a few lights at a time and see if interference stops or is reduced

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This may well be beyond the scope of a normal electrician.

 

My guess is the lighting has dimmers and they can be horrendous at causing interference, or another suspect may be some LED lamps.

 

Go and look and see exactly what lights cause the problem and report back. 

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I've had some LED fittings give off a load of rf interference before

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CE marking against the LV & EMC Directives?...

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Dragging the thread back to topic, kicking and screaming a bit......;)

 

Audio kit is notorious for susceptibility to earth loops, and the resultant hum - so much so that we used to have valve gear with the earth from the AC disconnected - earth came from the pre-amp, on the shield of the signal cable. did it provide the necessary c.s.a? Not a chance. But did it sound good? Hell, yes. Ergo - that was how it was done. ONE item had an earth connection - and - if you were running stereo - dependent on the config - one of the signal cables had a dropped shield at one end.

 

I`d like to see independent supplies - or at least, independently EMC & surge protected supplies; from different DBs - and I`d probably consider "guardian" type shielded cable ( FP would work) - for the AC supplies, rather than FTE.

 

Just my two pennorth

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I've noticed some LED  GU10 lamps give cause RF interference .    Distorting my site radio at 2 mtrs .    

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I've noticed some LED  GU10 lamps give cause RF interference .    Distorting my site radio at 2 mtrs .    

 

Almost certainly non-compliant then Deke.

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CE marking against the LV & EMC Directives?...

A "mark" means nothing.

 

Didn't you know "CE" stands for "Chinese Electronics"

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Apart from the fact PD that to fraudulently apply a CE mark to a product is a criminal offence right across the EU, and that it is also a criminal offence to place a product onto the market anywhere in the EU which does not comply with the required product directives.

If you personally import something say via ebay and then sell it on if the product does not meet the requirements of the relevant product directives then a criminal offence has been committed by the "seller on" of the product.

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No Dave, Chinese explosions!!

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I have genuine Kosnic LEDs in my kitchen and the DAB radio is unlistenable when they are on,  :| 

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I'd supplied these lamps from Denmans , only two of them .  These interfered with FM  wavelength .

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It's to do with the SMPSU's in the lamps, they are inadequately designed they emit RF interference at the switching frequency.

It is a known problem, and is not compliant with the EMCD.

Neither do they now comply with BS7671, see reg group 332 in the BYB.

So if you are fitting these then you are now in breach of BS7671.

This is something I will be taking up with suppliers @ ELEX.

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The EMC directive is just another shambles.

 

I was working in machine design when it came in and it caused our company a lot of headaches and a lot of expense to comply. More accuratly to prove we complied as very little actually changed.

 

How many prosecutions do you see?

 

What would trading standards actually DO if you go and tell them the LED lamp you have just bought with a CE sticker on it kills the FM or DAB reception in your house?

 

What are YOU as en electrician fitting these things supposed to do?  Test it in an actedited EMC test facility or just accept it has a CE mark so it must be okay?

 

It started out with good intentions but has become a largely unpoliced bit of legislation.

 

Much of what comes from China has a CE mark. Much of that is freely on sale in the UK, not just from ebay. Much of that is damn right dangerous as well as casing interference. But what is actually done? not a lot it would seem.

 

As long as we stick to buying goods from a reputable supplier, then the best we can hope for if they cause interference is to return them for a refund.  If they get lots of returns they might switch product, perhaps?

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PD, why are you defending this scenario?

 

I understand what you are saying.

 

However, why should designers, specifiers and installers risk breaching BS7671 because the manufacturers are too tight to and too profit oriented to make a compliant product...

 

Consumer units anyone?...

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I'm not defending it.

 

I'm saying we SHOULD be able to buy something with a CE mark on it, and use it, knowing it will be well built, will be safe and will not cause interference.

 

Sadly that is NOT the case.

 

So all WE can do is buy from a reputable supplier and if it is found wanting, take it back and try something different.

 

WE as electricians can't run our own test labs to check everything we buy.

 

It is a shambles. No doubt trading standards will blame austerity, cutbacks etc.

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We do maintenance/installation in a professional recording studio. I have not been there for 5 months now so can't 100% remember the details but have a separate distribution board running through a UPS & isolating tranny with a floating earth loop ( in addition to the 'normal' earth) on all power to do with any audio stuff. Ups was just to isolate from the mains and not for back up.

It played havoc with Rcd's, had to find a brand that was AC/DC dounle pole (started a thread here ages ago about this ).

Interestingly they were swapping out the hundreds of GU10 spots for any old LED lamp they found as each lamp blew and have never had a problem from them.

Edit, just remembered Rcd problems were to do with the isolated supply being 115 volts per leg.

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