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Help Please


ashq

Question

Hi people,

Ive completed the 2330 level course at college and passed all my exams and my am2, i was also doing the 2356 level 3 nvq but due to the fact i mainly work on domestic houses i having trouble finishing it, hopefully i will, but i was wondering if i cant what im qualified to do or limited to?? and what other short courses i could do without it, ie 17th edition, testing amd inspection??

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thanks for the info guys, but am i limited to what i can do, if i dont finish my 2356?? if i have my 2330 level 3, 2391, and maybe 17th edition can i do all the same things as if i had my nvq? I have abit of experience working on site and in commercial but we hardly do it and since you can't complete 2356 of just domestic, i dont know if ill be able to finish it, and would that then mean ive wasted the last 4 years(to the point i could only be an electricians mate or something?)

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there is no legal requirement to be qualified to do electrical work... you only need to be competent...

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there is no legal requirement to be qualified to do electrical work... you only need to be competent...

Define 'competent'?

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well thats the bit open to interpretation... but you can still be competent without qualifications

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There is no longer a reference to competent in BS7671 AFAIAA, nor do the scams define their members as competent,

WHY? 

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well thats the bit open to interpretation... but you can still be competent without qualifications

For me the fact that a person would not be sensible enough to put themselves through a set of courses that will teach you to do something properly then that, by definition means you are not competent.

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so someone who has done all the courses, but cannot finish due to them only doing domestic is now incompetent at all work because they havent done commercial work? get your head out your arse. not everyone is as perfect as you

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so someone who has done all the courses, but cannot finish due to them only doing domestic is now incompetent at all work because they havent done commercial work? get your head out your arse. not everyone is as perfect as you

Firstly I am far far from perfect. I have made so many mistakes. I cannot stand the dubbing down of our industry and will not settle that anyone that has not finished their training should be allowed to be called an electrician alongside the man that has.

You may be willing to think that is ok but I don't. It is only an opinion mate. Chill out. Life is too short for you to get all angst over the web.

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If we include the wider scope of BS7671 and look at the guidance notes, competence is still mentioned. Such as GN3 where it discusses the required competence of someone doing initial or periodic inspection and testing. We also still have EAWR 16 requiring competence to prevent danger and injury. However, as DIYers can still legally do their own electrical alterations, there is no statutory requirement for training, education, competence, correct tools, calibrated test instruments or anything else for anyone doing electrical work. Even where competence is mentioned you only need to have sufficient knowledge and experience of the nature of the installation being worked on. You do not need to be fully trained on every type of installation. So a  part qualified person could actually be quite reasonably competent for some fields of work.

 

Doc H.

 

 

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There are also many "fully qualified" guys who shouldn't be calling themselves electricians either,,,, IMHO

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anybody know (came ZL37 mainboard)for gate barrier..

Why?

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just a guess, but maybe it doesnt work?

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If we include the wider scope of BS7671 and look at the guidance notes, competence is still mentioned. Such as GN3 where it discusses the required competence of someone doing initial or periodic inspection and testing. We also still have EAWR 16 requiring competence to prevent danger and injury. However, as DIYers can still legally do their own electrical alterations, there is no statutory requirement for training, education, competence, correct tools, calibrated test instruments or anything else for anyone doing electrical work. Even where competence is mentioned you only need to have sufficient knowledge and experience of the nature of the installation being worked on. You do not need to be fully trained on every type of installation. So a  part qualified person could actually be quite reasonably competent for some fields of work.

 

Doc H.

Just because there is no specific law doesn't mean it is right. DIY in my opinion has no place in our world and should be strongly discouraged by anyone competent enough to know the dangers.

There are also many "fully qualified" guys who shouldn't be calling themselves electricians either,,,, IMHO

Dead right.

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just a guess, but maybe it doesnt work?

now why didn't I think of that?

 

I am always looking for the complicated solution and never the simpe one!

 

 

just saying

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Just because there is no specific law doesn't mean it is right. DIY in my opinion has no place in our world and should be strongly discouraged by anyone competent enough to know the dangers.

Dead right.

Is that just DIY electrics you think should be banned, or DIY plumbing, gas, carpentry, decorating, building etc?

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Ban DIY! :lol:

More people go to ******* B&Q on Sunday than Church!

This is the way that Maggie wanted it, organisation's just existing to fill holes in bureaucracy then when those holes are filled they make up something else and another company or organisation will fill the gap with some kind of scheme that you have to sign up to if you want to do a **** in the morning!

:slap

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Just because there is no specific law doesn't mean it is right. DIY in my opinion has no place in our world and should be strongly discouraged by anyone competent enough to know the dangers.

 

 

Just because you don't like something doesn't make it wrong. The OP was asking what their options were and others have quite rightly pointed out, legally they do have several options. Anybody has a perfectly free choice and right to try any activities that are legally permissible within this country. Until such times that the law changes then anyone asking similar questions should be given factual answers not an individuals personal opinion about how an industry should run or  what they think any other person is entitled to do. For example, someone who is qualified and competent to ensure the safety and wellbeing of livestock and is also reasonably good at working with their hands and has the ability to follow installation instructions provided by a manufacture and is able to use the internet or a wholesalers to purchase appropriate materials, etc. in your ideal world should never be allowed to do any DIY electrical work? There are no reasonable safety grounds or statistics to suggest that DIY electrical work is a major hazard to the general public, any more than the dangers of using the road is a danger. Cars are not going to be banned and I doubt DIY electrical work will be either? Probably best to concentrate our answers around reality not an idealistic Utopia.   

 

Doc H.

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thanks for the info guys, but am i limited to what i can do, if i dont finish my 2356?? if i have my 2330 level 3, 2391, and maybe 17th edition can i do all the same things as if i had my nvq? I have abit of experience working on site and in commercial but we hardly do it and since you can't complete 2356 of just domestic, i dont know if ill be able to finish it, and would that then mean ive wasted the last 4 years(to the point i could only be an electricians mate or something?)

well done it sounds like you are doing the right courses.  

 

JIB i think will want you to have an NVQ to be classed as an eletrician otherwise you will be a classed as installer or something.  I think when you get NVQ they class you as an electrician, NVQ + 2394/5 approved, NVQ + 2394/5/6 technician.  I think.

 

I think most schemes like NICEIC will want you to have an NVQ (i might be wrong) to join there club.

 

Keep asking around and hopefully you can find someone to help you complete the NVQ. Or create a job to do so.

 

 

Worth doing 2382 17th regs,  & 2394/5/6 if you can.

 

 

 

I dont think you have wasted your time at all.

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Is that just DIY electrics you think should be banned, or DIY plumbing, gas, carpentry, decorating, building etc?

Just DIY electrics. Anything that if done wrong could result in serious injury or death. You would not expect to see a DIY enthusiast to build an extension to their house or a roof conversion would you?

Ban DIY! :lol:

More people go to ******* B&Q on Sunday than Church!

This is the way that Maggie wanted it, organisation's just existing to fill holes in bureaucracy then when those holes are filled they make up something else and another company or organisation will fill the gap with some kind of scheme that you have to sign up to if you want to do a **** in the morning!

:slap

Just electrical DIY.

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Just because you don't like something doesn't make it wrong. The OP was asking what their options were and others have quite rightly pointed out, legally they do have several options. Anybody has a perfectly free choice and right to try any activities that are legally permissible within this country. Until such times that the law changes then anyone asking similar questions should be given factual answers not an individuals personal opinion about how an industry should run or  what they think any other person is entitled to do. For example, someone who is qualified and competent to ensure the safety and wellbeing of livestock and is also reasonably good at working with their hands and has the ability to follow installation instructions provided by a manufacture and is able to use the internet or a wholesalers to purchase appropriate materials, etc. in your ideal world should never be allowed to do any DIY electrical work? There are no reasonable safety grounds or statistics to suggest that DIY electrical work is a major hazard to the general public, any more than the dangers of using the road is a danger. Cars are not going to be banned and I doubt DIY electrical work will be either? Probably best to concentrate our answers around reality not an idealistic Utopia.   

 

Doc H.

Are you seriously suggesting that just because someone can look after cows and drive to and from an electrical wholesaler that means they can carry out electrical works???????

I will leave the legal questions for the lawyers forum. This is an electrical forum which the whole basis of is persons opinions. Are you suggesting that only 100% facts can be posted on this forum?

In your farmers guide to electrics you do not even mention testing to ensure the works is safe. Something that is hammered Into us as COMPETENT electricians. If someone want to do a bit of DIY that can only hurt themselves then fine. But the grandad who changes the sockets in the new grand daughters room should not be allowed 100%.

No statistics. Just look at the rise in domestic electrical fires since 2008 published by the LFB. Now I know these are contentious but is it not possible to conceive that since the introduction of Part P and the economic crash that more people have decided to try and carry out more and more DIY work indoors? Not knowing the extent of their competence have even done a few CUs?

You are correct that cars will not be banned. But driving them without being assessed as competent is. So your arguement fails there.

Any responsible person advising a person to complete DIY electrical work knowing full well what the dangers could be is irresponsible at best.

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No statistics. Just look at the rise in domestic electrical fires since 2008 published by the LFB. Now I know these are contentious but is it not possible to conceive that since the introduction of Part P and the economic crash that more people have decided to try and carry out more and more DIY work indoors? Not knowing the extent of their competence have even done a few CUs?

 

 

DIY electrical work has been going on since long before Part-P, also just because a house fire is classed as an electrical fault that has no relevance to if DIY work has been undertaken. A lot of electrical fires relate to faulty appliances, extension leads etc. But as we all know a vast amount of DIY work is carried out every year, so proportional to the amount of work done the number of serious injuries are actually small. Hence why no one has bothered to enforce any legislation. As such no one has to be fully trained in full scope at everything before they are allowed to do any electrical work. That is just a simple fact about how the industry works.

 

Doc H.

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DIY electrical work has been going on since long before Part-P, also just because a house fire is classed as an electrical fault that has no relevance to if DIY work has been undertaken. A lot of electrical fires relate to faulty appliances, extension leads etc. But as we all know a vast amount of DIY work is carried out every year, so proportional to the amount of work done the number of serious injuries are actually small. Hence why no one has bothered to enforce any legislation. As such no one has to be fully trained in full scope at everything before they are allowed to do any electrical work. That is just a simple fact about how the industry works.

 

Doc H.

 

As I said they are contentious.  Also how many electric shocks go unreported by DIYers?

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Just DIY electrics. Anything that if done wrong could result in serious injury or death. You would not expect to see a DIY enthusiast to build an extension to their house or a roof conversion would you?

 

 

Actually I WOULD.

 

There are plenty of self builders building all or part of ther houses themselves.

 

Would it worry you that I am doing a lot of the building of my new house.  I dug the foundations myself on my digger I bought from ebay (no training had never driven a digger before)  I will be tiling the roof once the builders have built the basic shell working from my own scaffold that I bought and erected myself.  I will be doing all the carpentry (yes you guessed, no formal training) I will be doing all the plumbing (some informal training from my dad) which includes LPG gas to the kitchen hob.

 

Yes absolutely shocking, it should not be allowed.

No statistics. Just look at the rise in domestic electrical fires since 2008 published by the LFB. 

You are trying to prove how dangerous DIY is, by pointing to a rise in electrical fires since Part P came into force (which should have stopped a lot of DIY electrical work)

 

It couldn't be anything to do with a new breed of "part P qualified" 5 week course "electricians" entering the market from that time could it?

 

By the way I am still looking for any data that compares electrical fires or injuries since 2006 comparing England with Scotland or NI

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of course its nothing to do with the 5DW's - they are qualified afterall

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