Plug in DIY solar !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I dont know if you guys have discussed this already,

Plug in DIY solar !!!!!!

i cant beleive it

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you still have to notify the local DNO that you have connected a generation device to the mains.

It's not new, thee were loads of these around, stymied by the FiT higher FiT - I had a few phone calls about signing off peoples DiY who were promptly told to go forth..., One fella got all shirty and jumped up and down a lot, still got told to go forth, but laughed my socks off when a gale collapsed the array and the shed he had fitted it to.

Now the the FiT is so low, I can see more of these appearing.

Actually, I think DIY solar is now the only way to go.

For my new house, I missed the boat on FIT solar. Without an EPC you can't claim the FIT and until the house is finished you can't get an EPC, otherwise I would have had solar PV installed even before the house was eren built.

By the time the house is finished and I finally get an EPC I honestly believe the FIT will be so low as to not be worth bothering with.

So the "new" model I am looking at is totally DIY install with the equipment being absolutely as cheap as possible (I have seen 4KWp kits on ebay for £2k) and not claiming any FIT.

That new model relies on self usage to make it pay for itself so excess power to water heating etc and use as much stuff like washing machine, dishwasher ertc in the daytime. I also expect to install some form of battery storage to get close to 100% self usage.

And lastly, if you are not concerned with absolute maximum yield, but are instead concerned with a more usable amount of power throughout the day, then my plan is three banks of panels, one East, One South and possibly one West, to start generating a useable amount of power earlier on in the day and keep generating later in the day, with less of a big mid day peak that's hard to self use.

I feel sorry for all the solar installers as in this brave new world, I don't see a role for them unless they want to buy in bulk and sell kits for DIY install.
 

Should still comply with section 712.

Should be installed on the supply side of the ocpd (712.411.3.2.1.1) if there is a fault on the circuit the OCPD might not operate, and if it does, the power from the Solar would still be on. This seems dangerous to me, no ADS.

There should be labels on the CU etc to say existence and location of alternative source of supply 514.15.1

and not forgetting the RCD trip time issue.

Rob_the_rich said:

Should still comply with section 712.

Should be installed on the supply side of the ocpd (712.411.3.2.1.1) if there is a fault on the circuit the OCPD might not operate, and if it does, the power from the Solar would still be on. This seems dangerous to me, no ADS.

There should be labels on the CU etc to say existence and location of alternative source of supply 514.15.1

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Well, I just got off the phone with plug-in-solar tech http://www.pluginsolar.co.uk/?product_cat=plug-in-solar-self-install-diy-kits, apparently the electronics in the kit sense whether there is mains power, if there is none (ocpd tripped) it switches off the micro-inverters, Apparently this is one of the pre-conditions to being able to sell them in this country.

You do have to fill in a form for the DNO, with a pic of your CU and diagram of the installation, but the form and instructions are included in the manual. There are labels for the CU and other places which are detailed in there as well.

Seems like they have got that covered then.

Edit; I didn't ask about rcd trip times.

Apparently business is brisk with them selling a lot of new build kits.

that is a G83 requirement - self isolation in the event of loss of mains, Trouble is the shutdown time is upto 5 seconds, whilst your RCD is milli-seconds.

£500 for a 250W panel, I'm in the wrong game 

binky said:

that is a G83 requirement - self isolation in the event of loss of mains, Trouble is the shutdown time is upto 5 seconds, whilst your RCD is milli-seconds.

£500 for a 250W panel, I'm in the wrong game 

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Just got off the phone again and apparently it cuts off in milliseconds. Less time than an rcd. He is going to email me with the details when he gets back in the office later.

If you are going to go DIY without a FIT payment then you need to be looking at cheaper than what plug in solar are offering. This is the cheapest I can see at the moment on ebat, £2299 for a 4KW system http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4KW-Solar-System-Kit/172346503647?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D38661%26meid%3D708203ac849144e88cc7ae440ab0297a%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D152247300500

To get a similar system installed by an MCS installer for the FIT will add well over £1k to that cost and with the low FIT payment now, I think it's not worth the extra.
 

Rob_the_rich said:

Just got off the phone again and apparently it cuts off in milliseconds. Less time than an rcd. He is going to email me with the details when he gets back in the office later.

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dont forget the 5s is in addition to the RCD trip time, so even if it cuts off withing miliseconds (say 20ms), and your RCD trip in 25ms then you are over the max trip time at 5x

Rob_the_rich said:

Just got off the phone again and apparently it cuts off in milliseconds. Less time than an rcd. He is going to email me with the details when he gets back in the office later.

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But that isn't guaranteed, the G83 standard is 5 seconds. If you are really interested in a small solar system (or a large one) let me know what you are thinking of and I'll get it trade for you, or you could just go to your local wholesaler - Denmans and Edmundsons all sell solar at reasonable prices.

binky said:

But that isn't guaranteed, the G83 standard is 5 seconds. If you are really interested in a small solar system (or a large one) let me know what you are thinking of and I'll get it trade for you, or you could just go to your local wholesaler - Denmans and Edmundsons all sell solar at reasonable prices.

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No, was just having a nosey around really. That was the first one  that came up on search. Thanks binky.

So they will never comply at 0.4 or 5 seconds, because you have to add max of 5 seconds. How can they be sold?

Putting them upstream of the CU seems the only way, but you would still fall foul of the 5 (+5) second discon time at the supply circuit.

How does it work with mcs installs?

if its on its own circuit and not sharing any device with something else, then not really an issue. its only really an issue if it shares an RCD with something else. in the case of hard wired inverter then its not really an issue unless some muppet fits an extra MCB on the RCD side. but since this plugs in, then you cannot guarantee required trip times...

but more concerning is if its unplugged and takes longer to switch off than it does to unplug and touch the potentially live pins...

How Does this work to a fully rcbo board without an rcd device as a split board and if the solar was also supplied by rcbo would that be classed  as within regs 

Andy™ said:

if its on its own circuit and not sharing any device with something else, then not really an issue. its only really an issue if it shares an RCD with something else. in the case of hard wired inverter then its not really an issue unless some muppet fits an extra MCB on the RCD side. but since this plugs in, then you cannot guarantee required trip times...

but more concerning is if its unplugged and takes longer to switch off than it does to unplug and touch the potentially live pins...

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The one linked comes with its own fcu, which you are expected to DIY install, from FAQ-"Regulation 551.7.2(ii) states: “The Microgenerator (solar panels) must not be connected to the final circuit by means of a Plug and Socket” This is why we supply a Plug-In Connection Unit with all our kits.  This ensures we abide by all the UK regulations." it says plug-in, but is an fcu.

Badger said:

How Does this work to a fully rcbo board without an rcd device as a split board and if the solar was also supplied by rcbo would that be classed  as within regs 

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551.7.1 (ii) rcd used for additional protection in the generator set circuit must disconnect all live conductors , including neutral. My paraphrase.

BTW he didn't get back to me with data on drop out times, might have to wait til Monday.

From a position of ignorance - is there anything stopping any Tom, Dick or Abdul from buying and using this stuff?

Strikes me that its something else we skilled people need to be aware of, but what about bob the builder, and Garry the gas man or Harry the handyman?

Murdoch said:

From a position of ignorance - is there anything stopping any Tom, Dick or Abdul from buying and using this stuff?

Strikes me that its something else we skilled people need to be aware of, but what about bob the builder, and Garry the gas man or Harry the handyman?

Click to expand...

Think it's a bit late, the cat's out the bag and the postcard is in the phonebox.

X(

Blue Duck said:

Think it's a bit late, the cat's out the bag and the postcard is in the phonebox.

X(

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So I can install one of these and save money ......... as simple as that?