Touring site eicr

Testing a very small touring caravan site - 4 twin hookups , meter and cut out is in white box on a post, supply is pme, DB is in enclosure back to back of meter, 3core swa one to each hook up , and a supply to a toilet block .

there is no separation of earths to the hook up 16A sockets ,  so no TT or TN-S , obviously doesnt comply just now so C3 or C2 , opinions?

C2 definitely. but as it is TNCS and there are liable to be people with bare feet standing on damp earth while touching the caravan metal frames, i would be tempted by a C1 myself... [Tin hat on]

john..

Disconnect and EDN until rectified anyone?

 

C2 two things need to happen before anyone is hurt 

Not neccessarily, it is tncs and there could be a difference in earth potentials between the origin and the caravan. Ok, doubt it would be much, but from memory this is ONE of the reasons tncs is banned from swimming pools [from memory, i do not have a copy of regs here] and is definitely banned from steel framed temporary things and yacting marinas.. There is a section in the regs somewhere that covers "perceived shock".. read it..

Ok, it might just be a tingle you get, but what if you have a pacemaker...I would be tempted to do as Prodave suggests...

You do know that about THREE volts can kill you....

john..

apprentice87 said:

C2 definitely. but as it is TNCS and there are liable to be people with bare feet standing on damp earth while touching the caravan metal frames, i would be tempted by a C1 myself... [Tin hat on]

john..

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C1? think you have a point John, the installation is actually dangerous for the situation.

Its Deffo a C1

And, @ProDave may have a very valid point. 

http://electrical.theiet.org/wiring-matters/61/caravans/index.cfm

.....just saying 

So we is all agreed then, a big fat C1 it is...

john..

apprentice87 said:

So we is all agreed then, a big fat C1 it is...

john..

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i'll go with that too

Thanks for the reply's . The site is closed for the winter just now, and the power is off. Last years eicr had it down as a code3. I tend to go by if the regs say something's prohibited then it needs to be fixed, but the C3 last year made me wonder if the previous sparks new something i didnt! This year it will be fixed , Ill sink an earth spike at each hook up point connecting the earth in the 16a socket to it, disconnecting the swa earth. This will leave the supply cable to each hook up TN-C-S and save me having to fit 4 rcd's !

Thanks Pete

flashypete said:

save me having to fit 4 rcd's

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Maybe I have misread something here but why/how are you omitting the RCD's?

J This will leave the supply cable to each hook up TN-C-S and save me having to fit 4 rcd's !

errrrrm, am I missing something here or have the regs  changed again and I missed it?

go to any caravan park (bar the one you are working on) and you will find an RCd at each hook-up.....

If it's a C1 what single action/failure will prove lethal?

I can't think of one, based on the level of detail to which I have read this thread.

Lurch said:

Maybe I have misread something here but why/how are you omitting the RCD's?

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If I TT the supply cable to the hook up it will need an rcd ( 1per circuit would be better than 1 for the whole site ) instead TT the hook up socket which like every caravan site I've been on has an rcd in the hook up already. 

flashypete said:

If I TT the supply cable to the hook up it will need an rcd ( 1per circuit would be better than 1 for the whole site ) instead TT the hook up socket which like every caravan site I've been on has an rcd in the hook up already. 

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I'm not following you, are you say there are already RCD's on each outlet? Not sure why you think you'd need to fit 4 more no matter what earthing method you go with? Or are you saying you are going to ..... actually I have no idea what you are doing.

Sidewinder said:

If it's a C1 what single action/failure will prove lethal?

I can't think of one, based on the level of detail to which I have read this thread.

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you know I don't do EICRs, but according to 708.411.4, connecting a PME earthing facility to the metalwork of the caravan would be against ESQCR, this should be enough to warrant a C1. The notes in the guidance for EICRs in Appendix 6 (p 427) concern only whether danger is present, not necessarily "lethal" danger.

sams as oversize MCB merits C1

binky said:

sams as oversize MCB merits C1

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Disagree, C2.

It is NOT immediately dangerous, it is a latent defect (fault 1) that requires a second fault (fault 2) in the way of overcurrent, short circuit, or earth fault, to become dangerous.

There are VERY, VERY few genuine C1 faults.

Rob_the_rich said:

you know I don't do EICRs, but according to 708.411.4, connecting a PME earthing facility to the metalwork of the caravan would be against ESQCR, this should be enough to warrant a C1. The notes in the guidance for EICRs in Appendix 6 (p 427) concern only whether danger is present, not necessarily "lethal" danger.

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Disagree.

C2.

Latent defect, (fault 1) is the connecting of the PME network to the caravan in breach of ESQCR (breach of statute law is not a code under BS7671 specifically), second fault would be the potential difference between the PME CNE conductor & true earth.

Thus C2, not C1.