XFP 507 UDL package - What am I missing here

So, to setup and program XFP addressable Fire Panels you have to use laptop, physically connect and the right software. the panel manual states you need a XFP507. A quick google about brings up things like

Link

Now, you look at the description and it includes a lead and some software. OK, if that is what it is then so be it. Shopping around you can get price down to just over £70.

The description openly states that the lead is a C-Tec SAF7070000.

So, you google that and you find things like this

Link

ONLY £18 quid!!!!

So, you think, well it must be a good bit of software with licensing and a bit costly........

but then you find this page and realise the software is a free download. :Godno:

What the hell is going on and what am I missing. It seems to me that the sellers of the panels (and no doubt the XFP507 'kit' are having your pants down left, right and centre!

Thoughts.......

I think it is just people wanting to give you a spanking.......almost £100 difference!

mind you, each one comes with a large tub of Preparation H 

Wasn't there an EU law passed about this sort of thing many moons ago? Something about non standard connections and forcing people to buy branded products to maintain compatibility.

Not that any manufacturer payed any attention...

I'm sure it was tried on Apple more recently with their lightning connector? 

I could however be talking out of my arse.  ... 

We use the xfp software and to be fair its quite good, you can do a lot of the setting up from the comfort of your armchair and just upload it to the panel.

The lead is only a DB9 to Molex, I could make one for a couple of quid. Most of the specialist leads are just RS232 or USB to RS232 with a molex connector on the end. Once you know the pin-out you can make yourself a lead, or an adapter for existing leads for next to nothing.

I have got loads that I have acquired/made over the years for various phone systems/alarm panels, some are a complete rip-off, some are not that bad considering. The assumption of the manufacturers is that most people will just buy the lead/software for no hassle, even though the parts are cheap and simple and the software is free. Basic economics, it's nothing new.

Lurch said:

The lead is only a DB9 to Molex, I could make one for a couple of quid. Most of the specialist leads are just RS232 or USB to RS232 with a molex connector on the end. Once you know the pin-out you can make yourself a lead, or an adapter for existing leads for next to nothing.

I have got loads that I have acquired/made over the years for various phone systems/alarm panels, some are a complete rip-off, some are not that bad considering. The assumption of the manufacturers is that most people will just buy the lead/software for no hassle, even though the parts are cheap and simple and the software is free. Basic economics, it's nothing new.

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I kinda guessed it was like that. I'm assuming they mix the pins about a bit to make it seem 'specialist'. Is there chance of damaging things if you get the pins wrong? I suppose if you get the power wrong then it could cause issues. I've seen leads with lose ends so you can mix them about yourself. Maybe you should start something with the knowledge of such pinouts lol

Barx said:

Is there chance of damaging things if you get the pins wrong? I suppose if you get the power wrong then it could cause issues.

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Depends, if it's a well designed piece of kit there may be protection, but probably not. Usually with some basic investigating you can work out which pins go where. One will be ground, which will be connected (usually) to the ground plane on the PCB. The rest sort of depend on the equipment, you might find they all go to an IC so you can find the pinout and work it out from there, or if you can find the power pins then the other 2 will be Tx & Rx, and reversing them isn't usually an issue. On the XFP though there is a second serial port, so maybe tracing something from that will identify some common pins, or a comms chip.

Is this a new panel or an existing one on site? You're only round the corner from me, could probably reverse engineer a lead without too much effort. I'll do it for less than £120.

Lurch said:

Depends, if it's a well designed piece of kit there may be protection, but probably not. Usually with some basic investigating you can work out which pins go where. One will be ground, which will be connected (usually) to the ground plane on the PCB. The rest sort of depend on the equipment, you might find they all go to an IC so you can find the pinout and work it out from there, or if you can find the power pins then the other 2 will be Tx & Rx, and reversing them isn't usually an issue. On the XFP though there is a second serial port, so maybe tracing something from that will identify some common pins, or a comms chip.

Is this a new panel or an existing one on site? You're only round the corner from me, could probably reverse engineer a lead without too much effort. I'll do it for less than £120.

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It's a new panel mate.

Never realised you was close by.

The gaffer bought the 'kit' before I discovered the scam behind it.... :innocent

I now have it in my possession. Doubt it can be sent back either as it was ordered in.

The CD isn't even a pressed unit, it's a blatant CD-RW and not the latest SW so 1 notch down from useless as you would just go online and download the latest.

Barx said:

It's a new panel mate.

Never realised you was close by.

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I'm only in Thorne (temporarily, sort of!).

Barx said:

The gaffer bought the 'kit' before I discovered the scam behind it.... :innocent

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Well there you go then, their plan worked!

The annoying thing is when you have the opposite problem, like the Twinflex with a standard cable but no free software. There's always some 'angle' that they're trying on. Honeywell is the worst offender IME, for both fire and security.

looked at galaxy software pricing. if it was free id probably use their alarms too but since its not ill be sticking with texecom

Andy™ said:

looked at galaxy software pricing. if it was free id probably use their alarms too

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It wouldn't be so bad if it was actually tailored for setting up the panels but it does loads of stuff most people don't need, and it still does smack of being 'chucked together'. It is a bit better than the old Microtech software, which was equally as mental on price.

I'm not sure what Honeywell are trying to do, the old Galaxy was aimed at larger integrators/companies and security managers so the fact that software is the best part of a grand wouldn't be an issue when you are spending a million on securing a chain of department stores or have 10,000 contract customers. In recent times though they seem to have relaxed the 'professional products for professionals only' routine and made the G2 (always thought it was a bit pointless) and then the Flex which didn't really seem to add anything. The software is still stuck at 'massive national security company' though, and isn't even that good.

Honeywell have gone carp, Just before Christmas I had hell with them, I fitted and accenta with remote keypad for a bloke on a small flat, he wanted a chime zone on his front door,so he knew if anyone came in, only problem was in their infinate wisdom the door chime is about the only sound not reproduced by the extension speaker. Now considering the keypad is in the logical place, i.e adjacent to the front door, and then there is a flight of stairs before you get into the actual living area then it isn't very clever. I spoke to one of their so called "technical people", somewhere in India I think, and incredibly was told "if you power it down mains and battery then power it up again it will know you want it to reproduce the exit chime via the extension speaker", WHAT!, Anyway I eventually spoke to a guy at Honeywell and he admitted that they've had loads of requests for this and it is sort of logical, but at the moment they've no plans to make the panel do it. I hadn't done any small domestic stuff for a while, not that required a chime zone anyway, next time it's going to be Veritas.

skip the veritas and go for elite. far superior. fit some of them and you wont want to go back to veritas

and if you do have any issues, texecom tech support is in england and they are helpful

TBF, the old ADE stuff was always just basic cheap kit. Now Honeywell have brought ADE and Microtech under one brand it sort of muddies the water a bit, especially as  they stuck an old ADE panel in a Microtech/Galaxy looking box. I haven't fitted an Accenta since I was an apprentice, and fell out with Texecom because of quality issues, and only went to Texecom because Menvier went to **** when everyone jumped ship and went to Texecom, and then the Dimension came out which took care of a lot of the issues I was having with the Galaxy G3's but now I'm not convinced that the Galaxy team can be bothered any more and the support is hit and miss,  so Pyronix seem to have tidied up their act recently and the Enforcer and Euro seem to be do the job for smaller systems (which is not surprising as it is old Castle kit) so maybe it is time to switch to Euro's instead of Dimensions?

So yeah, that's where I'm at.

Lurch said:

 and fell out with Texecom because of quality issues

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only problem i have with texecom is the event log in the engineer app doesnt work correctly on random days. they keep saying its been fixed even though i tell them its still broken