Which reference method?

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JACCD

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Hi all,

My apologies for this post because this should be simple, right???

Which reference method for T&E, in a mini-trunking that's clipped to, not in, brickwork?

The regs go into great detail about enclosed in wall, clipped direct, different measures for flat or round flex....but they seem to miss one of the most commonly used methods!  I'm looking at table 4D5 and this method is not there.  A or C?

Am I missing something?

Many thanks

 
Yeah, I was going to use ref A as it's the worst case.  Calcs hold up but just thought there might be an answer to a typical scenario.

 
For a start if it is in trunking it isn't clipped direct so you can knock that one off. So what's left, PVC cables in non-metallic trunking, anything else?

 
The thing you need to remember JACCD is that BS7671 is a guide, not an instruction book.  So whilst table 4D5 does specifically mention 'insulated and sheathed flat cable with a protective conductor', however, that more specific description did not appear in earlier regulations, although PVC flat T&E was in existence for a very long time. In some earlier regs you would have been using tables referencing something called 'multi core PVC non armored copper conductors' And the notes under 4D5 do refer to the full methods list 4A2, where the more general description Multi core Sheathed Cable is used. But 4A2 only mentions Flat T&E in thermal installation (100,101,102,103).  Not 'A'  or  'C'.   However if you look at numbers 8 & 9, method B, there is mention of multi core PVC cable in conduit on a wooden or masonry wall. Including specific note to the thermal effects if the run is vertical or horizontal.

So I would suggest you have two options; The first is to actually contact the manufacturer of your specific cable to ask them for their cable capacity data for your method of installation. Or option two, make a bit of a sensible judgment call using data from the tables for PVC multi core cables, non-armored, copper conductors, installation method B, for the conductor size of your cables. and do your calculations on those figures.  So don't forget BS7671 is a useful guide to your design, installation, certification and testing. It is not a comprehensive every possible permutation of answer will be found in here book. And departures and deviations are permitted, providing you can prove your deviation does not increase any dangers to people property or livestock than would not have been there if your deviation had not been implemented. To answer your "am I missing something" question. Don't become blind to a bit of common sense when required, is the thing you are missing I would guess.

Doc H.

 
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Don't become blind to a bit of common sense when required, is the thing you are missing I would guess.
Have to agree with that comment as "common sense "  seems to have "Left the building " . 

Sometimes ,as I've said before , all these rules & regulations  pile up until some guys are scared to open their toolbox without taking legal advice.

There was someone on here a while back looking for guidance on a shower install  ...I was somewhat taken aback to see he was looking at a 16mm cable due to various factors . 

When "common sense" is applied to shower jobs the thing to bear in mind is a domestic  shower  only works for , say , 10 mins , but there we all are worrying about how deep the lagging is ..is it clipped to a joist etc. 

What is different when appying the common sense rule would be if the same load was for a sub-main ...or ... (something I realised last year)  ...an electric shower in a dog grooming parlour  which was in use all day long .

I remember something from years ago , I changed from general contracting ( BS 7671 etc)  to working on overhead cranes .  Theres this humungous hoist motor that we would be wiring in 16mm say  ...they only used 6mm which seemed crazy to me .      But , the hoist only runs for about 10 - 15 seconds  ...no problem.    

 
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