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don

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Hello,

I am looking for work in the North London area. I have C&G 2377, 17th edition, 2392, 2393 and am completing the 2394/2395. I have a CSCS card, driver's license and own tools. I am new to the trade and realise that I would have to start off as a mate. But what I lack in experience I make up in hard work and reliability.

Thanks

Don

 
OK,

Don't take this wrong,

But why do you think you would have to start as a mate,?

Mates in general have a load of experience, but no actual qualifications, 

A mate taught me how to wire domestic houses,

You would still be starting at an apprentice stage imho, 

You still don't know how to actually do anything.

I have a groundworker labours for me on a weekend, he's my MATE, he can wire a standardish 3 bed house start to finish, 2way lights and all, he uses this cable for sockets, this for lights, that fat one for showers and the 6mm for cookers, 

He has no idea why, but he's a mate, he doesn't need to,

, he can lift a floor board and put it back like you wouldn't know it had been up, drill holes in the right place, and knows when and where boxes have to be a certain height, 

Why would your bits of paper make you worth as much as him,?

Just asking,,,,,,,,,

 
Don't take this the wrong way...

Lots of sparks have been very helpful until now. Giving advice, some have even shared links of job vacancies to point in the right direction.

Just staying.

 
Don't take this the wrong way...

Lots of sparks have been very helpful until now. Giving advice, some have even shared links of job vacancies to point in the right direction.

Just staying.
Steps isn't having a go mate, time was when people with lots of bits of paper had the edge over those without, this has changed, ever heard the saying "all the gear no idea"? These days with short courses people can start off with nothing, previously worked in sales for example and within a couple of months have a load of bits of paper proclaiming them to be an "electrician"! What amazes me is someone can do a short course then go straight on and do an inspection and test course, amazing, if you have no experience then how can you look at something and know it's wrong, I refused to do the 17th edition exam, I have a certificate from school that says I can read, so I don't need another one. we were all in your position once, as I got older I found people were less interested in bits of paper and more interested in what I'd actually done. In fact I can only remember being ask to produce paperwork once and  I didn't bother with it as he was paying well below what everyone else was paying.

I can guarantee that if I went up against you for a job and If I didn't have as many certificates as you, I'd still get the job, because I have experience and a proven track record, and that's what matters these days. It's a crying shame that people are being sold courses on the basis of "electricians earn X number of thousand pounds a year" , They don't tell you that the market is saturated with people who have little or no experience and are therefore of very little use on a big site.

Hopefully you will get the experience and one day you'll understand where we are coming from, I remember working for one firm and the boss sent another lad out with me, "to speed things up", unfortunately the lad had very little practical experience and the job ended up taking longer as I had to show him how to do everything. He was a good lad in the end, but he needed hands on teaching, nobody is going to pay you say £12 an hour if they have to put another spark with you to show you the job!

Don't worry about the bits of paper mate, be a bit humble, see a few firms and explain that although you have the paperwork you have limited experience, you'll probably get lucky and someone will take you one at a lower rate, remember the experience will pay dividends in the long run, good luck, Phil.

 
Hello,

That is the same with any industry. Experience is better than a qualification. But someone like me needs to start somewhere. So to know what I'm doing is to understand what I am doing and then gain some practical experience. Its like this for most of life. Anyway how stupid do you think I am. I am aware of all of this I have lived long enough. I will do what it takes. The 17th edition is a non statutory document. It can be used in a court of law to prove negligence. So to become an electrician is a big responsibility as people lives are at stake. So eventually when I put my name down on a EIC I want to know that I have done it by the book so it does not come back and bite me in the arse..

Thanks

 
A lot of firms want "the bits of paper" so they can spread the liability if things go t!ts up. If they were seen to have taken on somebody "unqualified" etc. A lot of places are just looking to fill a space and tick a box irrespective of the end quality of the work.

 
Knowing how to do something and understanding WHY you do it are 2 entirely different things!, I could show you how to run lab tests on certain things, it would take me about an hour to show you how to do the tests then you'd be good to do them, understanding why you do the tests and interpreting the results and how these results affect the end process takes many months.

It's the same with electrics, just because you know how to do something doesn't mean you know why, recently I saw a house that had been rewired, a nice 10mm earth to gas and water incomers, "why have you done that I asked the electrician"? "because you have to" came the reply, only thing was the incoming pipes were plastic and therefore a bond was not needed.

what do you know for example about "skin effect", or harmonics and their causes and effects? I think you are pretty arrogant considering your lack of experience, I didn't say you were stupid, you intimated that, however I do think you need to be able to take advice and criticism from people on here without flying off in a strop, there's a wealth of experience on here and some cracking lads, but you have to learn to listen to people with more experience than you, it's the same on site, if you start trying to appear clever with people who are trying to help you they'll teach you nothing.

I assume that you were one of the people who did a fast track course rather than a proper apprenticeship, well one thing still applies, your real education starts when you finish your training, the only thing is that by not doing a full apprenticeship you have more to learn.

I'm the last one to criticise anyone, but if you are going to get all huffy when offered advice then perhaps this isn't the forum for you, there's a lot of knowledge on here, absorb it and learn.

 
start with some basics., like testing your own property, maybe do some small electrical jobs in your own house. There is quite a lot of small jobs around, that busy electricians don't want. Getting a job will be much harder, when I employ someone, it's generally so I can leave them to do a job by themselves without supervision. So you will struggle to get employment without experience.

 
A lot of people who are new to the trade start off doing work for agencies, such as Hays.  It's the first rung on the ladder - you might get a couple of weeks or a couple of days here and there sweeping up, lugging stuff around, some jobs they might let you pull cables or second fix sockets.  If you're not doing it right or you have the wrong attitude they'll let you know via the agency, who will text you on your way home telling you not to go back the next day.

This is how I started out over 10 years ago.  As with starting any new career I found the hardest part was getting my first job with no experience apart from my first year at college; looking at the course numbers you have listed above it appears you have done one of these 'short courses' which don't include the actual core electrical qualification or even the technical certificate to prove underpinning knowledge, so that may well put you at a disadvantage, but presumably you factored that in when you chose to take that route.

 
Hello, 

Thanks for the advice. Basically I am in my late 30s and for me to go to college full time would have been impossible because like many of us we have bills to pay and a families to look after. i have been a retail manager for over 15years and thought it was time to change as I wanted to be with my family and retail doesn't afford you that luxury. So decided to become an electrician. Then maybe after 5 - 8years go out for myself. Well that's the plan anyway. Yeah those short courses are not the best of routes but I had to do something. I have a job starting this Monday. Hopefully I don't get a text on the way home. Ill do my best and try to persevere.

 
So decided to become an electrician
from labourer to electrician in about 15 years I think

you will spend a lot of time finding the work to get the experience and expertise you would have if you had done an old time apprenticeship,   

 
Strictly speaking any site manager worth his salt, would not accept you touching electrical work on a labourers card, years ago you could but now the system has been changed, you have to have a card that applies to your trade, so an Ecs card is what you're after. 

As for the qualies they have given you, well you'd struggle to be permitted to touch any install from a constructive manner.

may I put his too you, by your own admission you were in retail which meant long hours, so realistically the family is accustomed to you not being there, so can I suggest that you speak with the local college and see if they run an evening course for current electrical installation qualification requirement, you'll probably only be out the house twice a week for long hours and you'll gain a suitable, recognised qualification at the end of it and have greater understanding of what and why you do what you do.

 

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