Florescent tubes being awkward

I have a mystifying problem and I am hoping that you might help me to solve it.  I have done low-level DIY electrics for the last 50+ years.  I hope I can describe things adequately.

I have three 1764mm, 70 watt florescent tubes  fitted in my garage.  They are on a 2 gang, 2 way switch, one rocker works two lights and the other rocker works the 3rd light.

For three years they have all worked perfectly but a couple of weeks ago, the 2 lights on the one rocker, started coming on in a very haphazard fashion. Maybe one light or the other would come on or maybe not.  The next time it was used they would both work ok.

Puzzling enough but a few days ago, neither light would come on.  Ah! I thought, they need new starters.  New starters fitted.  Not working.

OK then, it must be the tubes.  New tubes fitted.  Still not working.

OK then, it has to be a loose connection in the switch.  Checked and every connection is rock solid.  I also checked the remote switch at the other end of my garage and again, the connections are good.

I am stumped.  Have you any suggestions for me please?

Thanking you in anticipation.

Fred Clarke

Assuming you have no test gear, go for a faulty switch first, try replacing that, if not the fittings may be getting knackered, capacitor or ballast may be failing, in which case it's best to just replace the fitting, but go for the switch first as obviously it's the cheapest option.

Hello phil d.  Thanks a lot for your help.  

You're right, I don't have test gear.  My excuse is safety as I have only worked when the circuit is switched off.  Perhaps I should invest in a circuit tester.

Switch?  Just replaced it with an MK and I wired it exactly the same as the one that has been operating fine or 3 years.  Lights still not working.

Capacitor/ ballast?  Is that not what I have called the starter?  If so, I have replaced the 'starters' too.  I have looked up capacitors/ ballasts on t'internet and they appear to be what I have always known as 'starters'.

I should have said that the fittings were new 3 years ago.  Surely they don't need replacing yet? 

Fred Clarke said:

You're right, I don't have test gear.  My excuse is safety as I have only worked when the circuit is switched off.  Perhaps I should invest in a circuit tester.

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bad excuse, without test gear you cannot confirm that the power really is off and its safe to work on

AndyTM

Thanks for your comment.  I have always just switched off at the mains  and confirmed power was off by trying light switches (in this case the 3rd light that is still working.  But, having thought about your comment, I can see that you're right and I will get myself a test kit.

Many thanks.

Test kit may be more expensive than replacement fittings

I presume you have fitted the correct starter?....also,makes sure tubes are rotated/aligned correctly

Universal,FSU starters are not ALL universal

there are 3-5 different ones

just saying

kerching.  Thank you very much for trying to help.  I was surprised by the variety of starters.  As I had bought Sylvania 70 watt tubes I bought Sylvania 70 watt universal (FS-11RAF) starters.  I'm probably a bit thick.  Am I missing something?

Thanks Murdock but surely the fittings should last more than 3 years?  No moving parts - I would expect 50 years to be reasonable.

Fred Clarke said:

Thanks Murdock but surely the fittings should last more than 3 years?  No moving parts - I would expect 50 years to be reasonable.

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:slap  

these days there made to last just longer than the warranty

and according to google, FS11 is 4-65w, might be your problem. its also possible that you have a dodgy new starter or lamp

AndyTM.

You have given me a laugh with your emoji, thank you.  I might be expecting a bit much with my "50 years"  but "...just a bit longer than the guantee"!  That is shameful!

As for the starters, the box clearly states 70 watt.  Thanks you very much for trying - I am truly grateful.

Try the starter from the fitting that actually does work, you might be surprised. Andy is more than likely correct. I've had loads of starters that say 4-80w on and they don't fire up a 70w T8 tube 

Take all the starters and try each in the one working light.

Then try them all in a non-working light.

Ditto for the tubes.

Now you know which bits work and which bits don't.

If the non-working lights still don't work with working parts, you need to test.

The cheapest tester is a non-contact tester. If you are OK to take the covers off to test the actual voltage, you could use a cheap multimeter.

cheers, Paul

Ye,

Agree with above regarding starters,

Some fittings cab be VERY fussy regarding starters, and those 'universal' starters aren't very much universal at all I usually find, unless its a 58w fitting.

And what about the old 5' Thorn arrowslim fittings with the black,endcaps...50 Watt tube that had its own specific starter!

or 4 Pin ali can starters in TWO physical,sizes

or,the electronics ones that were the Dogs Back Wheels...cost a fortune AND were crapacious 

or SRS ballasts and T 12 tubes

beejayUs I feel old now

Hi  Fred ,  Try taking the starter & tube from the WORKING fitting & fit them into the non workers .  You will know then that you have a good tube & a good starter .

A few things to think about :-

1) Some 6ft fittings only work with a 70W starter , which sounds like what you have .  ( It should say 70W only on it , no other wattage)

2) As said above , make sure the tube is clicked into the rotary endcaps.

3) Try all the other components in the working fitting  ( But don't forget which are the good ones )

4) Make sure you turned the starters in properly.

5) Remove the covers from the fittings & look for ..... wires melted because they run against the hot choke (Ballast).....choke gone into meltdown ,....any loose connections .

6)  Ensure you have the power off when messing.

7)  You say fittings are 3 years old  ...well, yes in the 1950s they would probably still be working ...but this is the era of the cheapo far eastern parts and especially chokes, depending upon the make , have a high failure rate.       

Let us know how you get on .

replace with LED, no internal parts to worry about.

binky said:

replace with LED, no internal parts to worry about.

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Tell that to my TV,,,,   :C

Fred Clarke said:

Capacitor/ ballast?  Is that not what I have called the starter?  If so, I have replaced the 'starters' too.  I have looked up capacitors/ ballasts on t'internet and they appear to be what I have always known as 'starters'.

I should have said that the fittings were new 3 years ago.  Surely they don't need replacing yet? 

Click to expand...

Capacitors and ballasts are not the same thing as Starters. They are items that are physically inside the light fitting and would require tools to remove or replace. Starters stick out of the side of the fitting and can be replaced by hand. As has been said, double check your starters and tubes with known working items first. If they still do not work its is probably cheaper to just get a new light fitting rather than messing around swapping internal components.

Doc H.

To Doc Hudson, Binky, Steptoe and the rest of the people who helped me by making suggestions, I say 'Thank You'.  Having changed the starters and the tubes without any joy, I gave up and changed the units.  Problem solved.  Many thanks to all.

Fred Clarke