Emergency light in a lift car

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I have a boook on Em. Ltg.  but I know for a fact it doesn't mention lifts. 

I'd say either type  would be acceptable.   Places that admit the public  need to be Maintained , theatres , cinemas, arenas etc.

 
Did he not offer any explanation to back up his statement? 

Maybe he meant YOU'RE not allowed to maintain it because HE is the lift "engineer"

 
Goods or passenger lift?

I looked after all of our goods lifts and they all had maintained EM lights. For a passenger lift I can only think the fitting may spoil the aesthetics of the car with It on all the time. Other than that I can’t see a problem.

 
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id say it should be maintained if there is only 1 other light, otherwise if that one fails (but not power failure) then youre in the dark but the emergency wont come on because it doesnt know the other light is dead

 
id say it should be maintained if there is only 1 other light, otherwise if that one fails (but not power failure) then youre in the dark but the emergency wont come on because it doesnt know the other light is dead
That was EXACTLY  my argument  with him

the normal running lift car light is on 24/7

it only ever gets replaced when it fails....I asked him about replacing it every 6 months along with the starter . His response?....."what starter?"    WTFF.?

i think they may just have lost the contract  :facepalm:

 
IET guide says:

4.3 Additional emergency lighting luminaires

BS 5266-1

BS 5266-1 advises that emergency lighting should be provided for:

...

b Lift cars. These are not usually used for the escape route, but persons may be trapped in them in the event of a supply failure. Being confined in a small space in the dark without escape is not only unpleasant but may cause harm to those who are nervous or suffer from claustrophobia. 

NOTE : If disabled people are given access to a building, one of their means of escape in emergency conditions may involve use of a lift or a place of safety or stairwell. Emergency lighting as specified for open area (anti-panic) lighting (see section 4.5) is required in lifts in which persons may travel. The emergency lighting can be either self-contained or powered from a central supply, in which case a fire-protected supply will be required.

...

Anyone know the BS no. for passenger lifts & I can find out what that says.

 
I had something similar in a doctors surgery, no EM fitting in a toilet, despite the fact that said toilet has no windows and therefore no natural light. The manager asked me to do an EICR on the building, even without doing any tests, I found numerous issues, and although the light didn't apply to what I'd been asked to do I mentioned it anyway, as a safety issue.

He didn't see the need for an EM fitting, in a toilet with no natural light, the switch being outside the room, so it could be switched off while someone is in there, likewise imagine being in a  toilet with your strides around your ankles and the power fails, you trip over and hit your head on the washbasin. Honestly for very little money you'd just stick an EM fitting in.

Lets be honest even if it was just fed from the fitting in the room it would do, at least if that fitting lost power you'd still have light, some people are just too tight.

 
BS 5655 - 6 ;2011

Please have your £244.00 ready .
That's not the one Deke, I've checked, it is actually the BS EN 81 series it seems.

BS 5655-6:2011 is Part 6: Code of practice for the selection, installation and location of new lifts

There is also:

BS 5655-11:2005  Lifts and service lifts. Code of practice for the undertaking of modifications to existing electric lifts

BS 5655-12:2005  Lifts and service lifts. Code of practice for the undertaking of modifications to existing hydraulic lifts

The parts of BS EN 81's that seem relevant are:

-20:2014, -80:2003, -82:2013, -41:2010, -70:2003, -3:2000+A1:2008, -2:2008+A3:2009, -1:1998+A3:2009

All seem to have something to say on the matter.

I'll quote some bits as I get them.

There is noting in 5655-6 on lighting -11 & -12 both seem to say nothing on lighting.

The rest will be a little while.

 
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BS EN 81-1 above says this:

8.17 Lighting
8.17.1 The car shall be provided with electrical lighting that is permanently installed ensuring a light intensity of at least 50 lux at floor level and on the control devices.
8.17.2 If lighting is of the incandescent type, there shall be at least two lamps connected in parallel.
8.17.3 The car shall be continuously illuminated when the lift is in use.  In the case of automatically power operated doors the light may be switched off when the car is parked at a
landing with the doors closed in accordance with 7.8.
8.17.4 There shall be an automatically rechargeable emergency supply, which is capable of feeding at least a 1 W lamp for 1 h in case of an interruption of the normal lighting supply. This lighting shall come on automatically upon failure of the normal lighting supply.
8.17.5 If the supply referred to 8.17.4 is also used to feed the emergency alarm signal called for in 14.2.3, its capacity shall be rated accordingly.

81-2 seems to say pretty much the above.

 
BNS EN 81-3 says:

13.6 Lighting and socket outlets
13.6.1 The electric lighting supplies (if any) to the car and to the machine room shall be independent of the supply to the machine, either through another circuit or through connection to the machine supply circuit on the supply side of the main switch or the main switches laid down in 13.4.

 
BS EN 81-41 says:

5.5.4 Lighting
The lighting at the floor of the platform, at the platform control devices and the vicinity of the landings doors shall be not less than 50 lux. Lighting used shall minimise glare, reflection, confusing shadows or pools of light& dark. Where a light switch is provided, it shall be protected against unauthorised operation. Lifting platforms shall be fitted with an automatically rechargeable emergency supply, which is capable of feeding at least 1W lamp for one hour in the case of an interruption of the normal lighting supply. This lighting shall come on
automatically upon failure of the normal lighting supply.

 
BS EN 81-20 says:

5.4.10 Lighting
5.4.10.1 The car shall be provided with electrical lighting that is permanently installed ensuring a light intensity of at least 100 lux on the control devices and at 1 m above the floor at any point not less than 100 mm from any wall.
NOTE The configuration of the car may be so that handrail, tip-up seat, etc., may generate shadow that may be ignored.
The light meter should be oriented towards the strongest light source when taking lux level readings.
5.4.10.2 There shall be at least two lamps connected in parallel.
NOTE In this context lamp is understood to mean the individual light source e.g. bulb, fluorescent tube, etc.
5.4.10.3 The car shall be continuously illuminated except when the car is parked and the doors are closed.
5.4.10.4 There shall be emergency lights with an automatically rechargeable emergency supply, which is capable of ensuring a lighting intensity of at least 5 lux for 1 h:
a) at each alarm initiation device in the car and on the car roof;
b) in the centre of the car 1 m above the floor;
c) in the centre of the car roof, 1 m above the floor.
This lighting shall come on automatically upon failure of the normal lighting supply.

BS EN 81-80 states:

5.8.8 Lighting and emergency lighting in the car
5.8.8.1 The car shall have permanently installed electric lighting. Where inadequate it shall be in accordance with EN 81-1:1998, 8.17.1, 8.17.2, 8.17.3 or EN 81-2:1998, 8.17.1, 8.17.2, 8.17.3.
5.8.8.2 Emergency lighting in accordance with EN 81-1:1998, 8.17.4 or EN 81-2:1998, 8.17.4 shall be provided.

 
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Also note that lifts come under the Machinery Directive, thus the auspices of ISO 12100.

All of the above standards reference IEC 60364.

As will the requirements of the MD.

Under the requirements of the MD, EHSR 1.1.4 states the following:

Machinery must be supplied with integral lighting suitable for the operations concerned where the absence thereof is likely to cause a risk despite ambient lighting of normal intensity. Machinery must be designed and constructed so that there is no area of shadow likely to cause nuisance, that there is no irritating dazzle and that there are no dangerous stroboscopic effects on moving parts due to the lighting. Internal parts requiring frequent inspection and adjustment, and maintenance areas must be provided with appropriate lighting.

MD guidance states:

§179 Integral lighting The machinery manufacturer is entitled to assume that the ambient lighting in the place of use is of normal intensity. Normal intensity can be judged, for example, by taking into account the levels for indoor and outdoor workplaces indicated in standards EN 12164, parts 1 and 2.106 The first paragraph of section 1.1.4 requires the manufacturer to provide lighting integral to the machinery when normal ambient lighting is likely to be inadequate to ensure safe operation of the machinery. Such lighting may be necessary, for example, at work stations that are likely to be in the shade or in enclosed or covered work stations or cabs. Such lighting may also be necessary where the visual tasks of the operators require a higher level of luminance than is likely to be provided by the ambient lighting. The third paragraph of section 1.1.4 adds the requirement for integral lighting for internal parts to which access is frequently required for inspection, adjustment and maintenance purposes. The second paragraph of section 1.1.4 concerns the design of the integral lighting, to ensure that it does not generate other hazards. Specifications for integral lighting are given in standard EN 1837

EN 1837 calls the emergency lighting standards, and EN 12100.

It also states the following:

5.4 Availability of illumination
Where failure of the integral lighting system of the machine can give rise to dangerous conditions the lighting system shall consist of more than one light source. One of these sources shall be supplied from an alternative electrical supply.

Regardless of whether the lift is in a workplace or not, it is still a machine, and is more so a machine operated by the general public, and still must comply with the machinery directive, therefore IMHO the lift "engineer" is a muppet, and, the provision of a second maintained EM light is required by the machinery directive, if failure of the main light could cause danger.  Which is reasonably foreseeable, and thus, must be accounted for.

QED for tonight guys.

HTH.

 
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