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scotty_ian

Architrave dry lining back box ??

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scotty_ian

Hi folks:

 

I'm installing an architrave light switch in a plasterboard wall and am trying to find a flush mounted plastic dry lining back box.  There doesn't seem to be such a thing so I seem to be stuck using a metal flush mounted one but I don't have anyway of securing it behind the platerboard.  Please has any one some bright ideas.

 

Thanks

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Rob_the_rich

cut the hole same size as box, use bits of wood with gripfil on to stick to back of pb on each side, wait, drill holes in side of box and screw to wood

 

you might have trouble with safe zones above and below as the switches are very narrow

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ProDave

Take one standard 1G DL box. A fine tooth hacksaw, and some superglue.

 

And you think I am joking?

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Blue Duck
21 minutes ago, ProDave said:

Take one standard 1G DL box. A fine tooth hacksaw, and some superglue.

 

And you think I am joking?

 

No...done similar myself :)

 

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scotty_ian

Good thinking pro Dave  I'll give it a go. I read an old forum post that someone heard about putting 'ears ' on a metal flush box. Any idea what that could have been.

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Blue Duck

I have bolted angle brackets on the side of a metal patress before too...

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scotty_ian
1 hour ago, Rob_the_rich said:

cut the hole same size as box, use bits of wood with gripfil on to stick to back of pb on each side, wait, drill holes in side of box and screw to wood

 

you might have trouble with safe zones above and below as the switches are very narrow

Like it thanks

2 minutes ago, Blue Duck said:

I have bolted angle brackets on the side of a metal patress before too...

Like that idea better thanks

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Blue Duck

Jus be careful with what accessories you use and where you locate the bolts, I ballsed up in the past when trying to install a flat FCU.

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Rob_the_rich

I can see how a box with brackets bolted on can be pushed through the hole (with cable inserted), twisted and pulled into position. But what stops it falling out into the cavity and being lost? if not during installation, then during any maintenance.

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ProDave
47 minutes ago, Rob_the_rich said:

I can see how a box with brackets bolted on can be pushed through the hole (with cable inserted), twisted and pulled into position. But what stops it falling out into the cavity and being lost? if not during installation, then during any maintenance.

Some sticks like sh*t to glue it in place.

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kerching
4 hours ago, scotty_ian said:

Good thinking pro Dave  I'll give it a go. I read an old forum post that someone heard about putting 'ears ' on a metal flush box. Any idea what that could have been.

Yep....see M107s post above :innocent

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Steve Bryant

Well chaps, I’ve had the need for one of these a few times over the years so have spent the time and money recently investing in getting these manufactured, currently on eBay and will soon be on my website and in your local wholesales 

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SPECIAL LOCATION
9 hours ago, Steve Bryant said:

Well chaps, I’ve had the need for one of these a few times over the years so have spent the time and money recently investing in getting these manufactured, currently on eBay and will soon be on my website and in your local wholesales 

 

Personally I think you've probably wasted your time...

 

This thread goes back many years...  and there hasn't been that many other questions for them...

 

AND by definition,  architrave boxes need to fit into narrow spaces, where standard width boxes don't fit...

So generally there is at least one, (or more), studs or battens nearby that a metal architrave box could be fixed to..

 

Also a word of caution.....

 

If you are intending to advertise your new boxes on the forum you will probably need to become a sponsor...

or any posts will get removed...  and/or you could get barred from posting..   

 

Otherwise its unfair on the other companies who do sponsor and pay for their advertising...

 

Best of luck with your boxes... 

But if there really was a lot of demand for them,  I think companies like Appleby would have included them in their range a long time ago...

as they make almost every other type of dry-line box needed...?

 

I've been self employed since Feb 1999...   And never needed a plasterboard architrave box....   :C

Guinness

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Andy™
9 hours ago, SPECIAL LOCATION said:

 And never needed a plasterboard architrave box....   :C

Guinness

 

never needed one either and cant really think of any cases where if used an architrave box that it would have needed to be a dry liner

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UNG
18 hours ago, Steve Bryant said:

Well chaps, I’ve had the need for one of these a few times over the years so have spent the time and money recently investing in getting these manufactured, currently on eBay and will soon be on my website and in your local wholesales 

In the 45 years I've been in the trade I have probably fitted no more than 10 architrave switches and 2 or 3 of them were 2 gang switches so wouldn't fit your 1 gang box and none of them needed or would have been easier to fit with a dry lining box.

Not sure how you researched the market for these boxes but I don't see them being a big seller at the price they are

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kerching

Sorry to say this but I think you have developed a solution for an  almost non  existent problem.

probably fitted 5/10 in 50 years.  I carry one as a spare, just in case. It has been in the van for so long ....it's  an mK version with square corners

never ever fitted a 2 gang one either, has anyone?

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Andy™
2 hours ago, kerching said:

 

never ever fitted a 2 gang one either, has anyone?

 

few times, usually between 2 door frames where you cant get a normal sized switch in. but again, no need for a dry liner as the gap isnt wide enough not to have anything behind to screw a box to

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ProDave

Quite nicely done.

 

s-l1600.jpg

But the price needs to drop a LOT before I buy a couple to keep the the box just in case.

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Steve Bryant

Thanks for the feedback guys, I’ve been a sparky for 27 years, I know it’s not something that will be fitted every day but it’s a get you out of the ****e item, when they move a door lining on second fix, would you rather spend time trying to carve it out and fill the wall after or 2 mins fitting one of these, I’ve also spent my time making low level light fittings that will fit into the boxes, I get the price is not cheap and will be cheaper as more boxes sell, it’s been a real eye opener bringing the product to market how much is involved in every way, base on my research there are 200k sparks in the uk, if 1 in 4 of us use 1 each year that will do me  as I’m not looking to be a millionaire but would be nice if it acts as a pension pot item. 

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SPECIAL LOCATION
10 hours ago, Steve Bryant said:

base on my research there are 200k sparks in the uk, if 1 in 4 of us use 1 each year that will do me  as I’m not looking to be a millionaire but would be nice if it acts as a pension pot item. 

 

From the random sample of this forum, your projected estimations sound very optimistic...

 

Saying 1 in 4 out of 200,000sparks could use one 1 per year is projecting 50,000 items to be sold per year..

(e.g. over 4 years you sell 200,000.)

 

This is just the same as saying every spark would buy 1 every 4 years..    (200,000 sold over 4years).

But from 5 responses here, it sounds like no one has needed one over 10years, (or greater), time span.  

(I've never needed one in 22years of self employment, or 19+ years as an employee before that.)  

 

I think you would be pushing it to get 1 out of 100 sparks needing 1 every 10years.

(e.g. 2000 per 10years..  or 200 units per year).

 

If you could buy them for around the price of a standard single gang dry-line box..  (no more than 75p each)

I may be tempted to buy 1 to keep in the "just in case" box..

 

But...

as this is a product to cut into a plasterboard wall..

I'm still struggling to think of any plasterboard wall that is so narrow you can't cut in a standard box..

Or screw a metal box, (less than £1.00),  onto a nearby stud..

Or if it was such a faff you just fix a surface box.. again less than £1.00.

 

 

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Steve Bryant
1 hour ago, SPECIAL LOCATION said:

 

From the random sample of this forum, your projected estimations sound very optimistic...

 

Saying 1 in 4 out of 200,000sparks could use one 1 per year is projecting 50,000 items to be sold per year..

(e.g. over 4 years you sell 200,000.)

 

This is just the same as saying every spark would buy 1 every 4 years..    (200,000 sold over 4years).

But from 5 responses here, it sounds like no one has needed one over 10years, (or greater), time span.  

(I've never needed one in 22years of self employment, or 19+ years as an employee before that.)  

 

I think you would be pushing it to get 1 out of 100 sparks needing 1 every 10years.

(e.g. 2000 per 10years..  or 200 units per year).

 

If you could buy them for around the price of a standard single gang dry-line box..  (no more than 75p each)

I may be tempted to buy 1 to keep in the "just in case" box..

 

But...

as this is a product to cut into a plasterboard wall..

I'm still struggling to think of any plasterboard wall that is so narrow you can't cut in a standard box..

Or screw a metal box, (less than £1.00),  onto a nearby stud..

Or if it was such a faff you just fix a surface box.. again less than £1.00.

 

 

I take it your not into the idea then 😂. This post only has only 5 responses so very narrow audience, wholesalers I’ve had initial chats with have said they have been asked for them numerous times so I hope to prove you wrong, my take on it is you only fit an architrave switch when a normal one won’t fit, if your buying a switch and have the option of a dry liner I personally think people will go for it, Sometimes you have to try a different Avenue 🤞

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UNG
12 hours ago, Steve Bryant said:

Thanks for the feedback guys, I’ve been a sparky for 27 years, I know it’s not something that will be fitted every day but it’s a get you out of the ****e item, when they move a door lining on second fix, would you rather spend time trying to carve it out and fill the wall after or 2 mins fitting one of these, I’ve also spent my time making low level light fittings that will fit into the boxes, I get the price is not cheap and will be cheaper as more boxes sell, it’s been a real eye opener bringing the product to market how much is involved in every way, base on my research there are 200k sparks in the uk, if 1 in 4 of us use 1 each year that will do me  as I’m not looking to be a millionaire but would be nice if it acts as a pension pot item. 

So in your 27 years as a spark how many architrave switches have you fitted where a drylining box would have been beneficial

I think some of your numbers are extremely optimistic and I would have to question them. 200,000 sparks would mean that around 1 in 164 people of the working age population in the UK is a spark, another statistic that is missing is the split of domestic, commercial and industrial sparks in that 200,000

With regard to carving out a wall a multi tool makes the job very easy and I can't remember any job where I have used an architrave switch where there was nothing to fix the box to

The biggest problem you have is the price point and short production runs mean the price per unit will always remain high. While you have a unique product at the moment you have to look at who you are up against I'm sure the likes of Ashley and the other fastafix box manufacturers who have been producing boxes for many years have looked at this and decided that there is no market to warrant the manufacture of them and insignificant production runs are not cost effective

Adding lights to the box portfolio won't necessarily enhance sales and the overall price of the product will be the big hurdle to overcome

 

7 minutes ago, Steve Bryant said:

I take it your not into the idea then 😂. This post only has only 5 responses so very narrow audience, wholesalers I’ve had initial chats with have said they have been asked for them numerous times so I hope to prove you wrong, my take on it is you only fit an architrave switch when a normal one won’t fit, if your buying a switch and have the option of a dry liner I personally think people will go for it, Sometimes you have to try a different Avenue 🤞

I'm with Special Location on the figures and they don't stand up. I don't see that you have a big market for these boxes, ok so " wholesalers I’ve had initial chats with have said they have been asked for them numerous times" but how many times over what period of time and how many architrave switches are they selling

I wish I could share your optimism but you would need production runs of hundreds of thousands to bring the price down to a reasonable level

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Steve Bryant
1 hour ago, UNG said:

So in your 27 years as a spark how many architrave switches have you fitted where a drylining box would have been beneficial

I think some of your numbers are extremely optimistic and I would have to question them. 200,000 sparks would mean that around 1 in 164 people of the working age population in the UK is a spark, another statistic that is missing is the split of domestic, commercial and industrial sparks in that 200,000

With regard to carving out a wall a multi tool makes the job very easy and I can't remember any job where I have used an architrave switch where there was nothing to fix the box to

The biggest problem you have is the price point and short production runs mean the price per unit will always remain high. While you have a unique product at the moment you have to look at who you are up against I'm sure the likes of Ashley and the other fastafix box manufacturers who have been producing boxes for many years have looked at this and decided that there is no market to warrant the manufacture of them and insignificant production runs are not cost effective

Adding lights to the box portfolio won't necessarily enhance sales and the overall price of the product will be the big hurdle to overcome

 

I'm with Special Location on the figures and they don't stand up. I don't see that you have a big market for these boxes, ok so " wholesalers I’ve had initial chats with have said they have been asked for them numerous times" but how many times over what period of time and how many architrave switches are they selling

I wish I could share your optimism but you would need production runs of hundreds of thousands to bring the price down to a reasonable level

I fully agree it’s not going to be a big earner and will take time for people to realise it’s an option, if it grows slowly and gives me a few quid to pay for itself and then make a profit it’s worth doing in the long run 🤞, as I get older my knees are getting worse from doing the job, sometimes you need to try different things, if you don’t try you’ll never know, the price point is understandably an issue but design and manufacture has cost more than I had imagined, the price point will come down for sure, hopefully I’ll be able to find a balance that’s earns enough and makes it appealing for customers 🤞, I’ve gone this far and the money has been invested so can only generate money now however much it maybe. 

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Sharpend

It will only generate money if it sells and selling one batch to the wholesalers is one thing but how long between repeat orders? This will be a product that will eventually find its way into the pound shops etc as bankrupt stock. I’m not trying to put down your efforts Steve but I think that if it was considered a viable business strategy then the existing producers would have it in their arsenal already? Perhaps the fact it isn’t is research enough to say it’s a non-starter? I just hope that the costs you have already spent isn’t your pension now gone? 
 

wish you all the best and if I do see them then I might just buy one out of respect for your efforts.  

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