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Evans Electric

Something free from BT ..I don't believe it !!!

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Evans Electric

A free BOOST is coming  ,  superfast broadband  to 76  somethings  is almost upon me ,  for free !!!!  

And things in the clouds too :C

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Blue Duck

You've made it to the 21st century! 

 

Often wondered how you managed this long  on a 14.4kbps modem!

 

:lol:

 

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Murdoch

BT and "free" don't usually get mentioned in the same sentence!

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phil d

Virgin did the same, I started off on 20 meg broadband, they kept sending me letters asking if I wanted to upgrade to 40 meg, I ignored them, after about 6 months I got a letter, "Dear Phil, we're upgrading you to 40meg for free".

 About 6 months later it started again, would I like to upgrade to 50 meg? I ignored it, again I got it for free, then 60 meg, and again I got it for free, I would never pay for an upgrade. I don't need really high speeds, plus I remember when I worked for VM, they were just bringing out 20meg at the time, and it wasn't cheap, they told us that at the time the majority of customers wouldn't achieve those speeds, due to various technical issues, but not to tell the customer this.

It's the same with fibre, having fibre to the node has no big improvement on your speeds so it isn't worth paying for, plus if they want to go fibre to node they are going to do it anyway, and everyone connected to that node gets the same speed. It would have to be fibre to the house to have any massive improvement, and that is some time away from happening at the moment.

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Andy™
6 minutes ago, phil d said:

 

It's the same with fibre, having fibre to the node has no big improvement on your speeds

 

recently changed from ADSL to FTTC. apart from my down speed going from 4mbps to 40mbps (sometimes as low as 35mbps) and upload from 0.7mbps to 5.5mbps, there are no big imrpovements

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phil d
8 minutes ago, Andy™ said:

 

recently changed from ADSL to FTTC. apart from my down speed going from 4mbps to 40mbps (sometimes as low as 35mbps) and upload from 0.7mbps to 5.5mbps, there are no big imrpovements

The cable must be in good condition then, otherwise you'd not see much improvement.the trouble was they started off rolling out the fibre without any thought for the state of the existing network, and a lot of BT's stuff is failing fast.

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Andy™

actually, if the cable was in better condition and i was closer to the cabinet, then i could (in theory) get 80 down 20 up

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Lurch
13 hours ago, phil d said:

the trouble was they started off rolling out the fibre without any thought for the state of the existing network

 

Quite the opposite, Openreach would prefer everyone to be on fibre so they can scrap the bulk of the old network.

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phil d
4 hours ago, Lurch said:

 

Quite the opposite, Openreach would prefer everyone to be on fibre so they can scrap the bulk of the old network.

But that isn't going to happen any time soon! When the government in it's infinite wisdom (not) allowed virtually anyone to become a PTO, the rot set in, BT were expected to maintain an aging and decrepit network, yet allow third parties access to it. these third parties pay a small fee for the use of the network, while BT get saddled with all the cost of maintaining it, yes maybe they would like to use more fibre, but they also need to make a profit.

Virgin media, which is the only other PTO to own it's own network, installs cabling, it does so on a projected cost versus profit basis, if there won't be enough takeup of services to ensure a decent profit then they don't lay cables, BT however has no such luxury. The government states that they MUST provide a network, even if there is very little projected takeup, this is quite a heavy burden for them to carry, especially when in all probability, any potential users of the infrastructure will chose another provider such as Talk Talk, or Sky, who can provide a cheaper service, and why? Because they are not saddled with the cost of installing and maintaining the network.

It's a good few years now since I worked for BT, yet from speaking to engineers who still work there I know that there are parts of the network in my area, which were giving trouble back in my day, and are still in service, and have only gotten worse. There is one main cable, feeding a small village, it's a 250 pair iirc and it's so badly damaged now that I think there are no spare pairs left to switch over to in  the event of a fault, however the cost of replacing it far exceeds the revenue that it brings in, and so it is patched up on an almost weekly basis!

Think of it this way, suppose we were both quoting to rewire a 3 bed house, you have to cover not only your labour costs, but also the price of materials, I on the other hand have a mate who can get me all the kit for nothing. Which one of us do you think can put in the lowest price and get the job, it's going to be me obviously. It's that very situation that has stymied BT for years now, they have to maintain a network, which requires constant investment, yet also show a decent profit for their shareholders. Sky, Talk Talk, et al, merely pay a small sum to use the network, can have lower charges to the end user, and therefore have more customers, it's not an even playing field.

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Lurch

That's basically what I meant, Openreach want the core network upgrading so the more people that take fibre means the more of the old network that can be ditched. The government don't help, we aren't good with forward planning and diving into the future, we like things to stay the same, including crappy broadband and crackly phones! If we had reasonably priced gigabit services I would be all over that, but we don't, and anything we do have that is decent is so ridiculously priced no-one uses it. It's a loss leader type thing in some places, but it helps fund the network upgrades so in the long run it is worth it.

 

Long and short of it, broadband in this country is rubbish!

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phil d
1 hour ago, Lurch said:

That's basically what I meant, Openreach want the core network upgrading so the more people that take fibre means the more of the old network that can be ditched. The government don't help, we aren't good with forward planning and diving into the future, we like things to stay the same, including crappy broadband and crackly phones! If we had reasonably priced gigabit services I would be all over that, but we don't, and anything we do have that is decent is so ridiculously priced no-one uses it. It's a loss leader type thing in some places, but it helps fund the network upgrades so in the long run it is worth it.

 

Long and short of it, broadband in this country is rubbish!

Exactly! and there is the whole crux of the problem, the government won't help! They expect Openreach to get a network up to scratch by spending millions of pounds on it, then let everyone else use it, Virgin don't have to allow anyone else to use their infrastructure, I don't know of any other private company where they are told by the government, "you have to spend money on your gear, but let others use it for next to nothing".

Mind you, you only have to look at the motorways to see how badly we do things over here, what other country would let the so called " improvement" works on the M6 drag on as long? Or those on the M62 for that matter!

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roys

I agree with what you are both saying (Phil and Lurch) but BT still gets paid by every single customer on the network even if they are not with BT which is only fair since they maintain the network.

My broadband, tv and phone are all with Virgin yet £13 of that bill still has line rental on it which I presume is the BT payment.

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phil d
3 hours ago, roys said:

I agree with what you are both saying (Phil and Lurch) but BT still gets paid by every single customer on the network even if they are not with BT which is only fair since they maintain the network.

My broadband, tv and phone are all with Virgin yet £13 of that bill still has line rental on it which I presume is the BT payment.

Roys you have absolutely no idea about how it works 'how much of the cost of your mobile phone bill do you think goes to BT , after all does that not use the network at some point if you are dialling a landline? 

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roys
4 hours ago, phil d said:

Roys you have absolutely no idea about how it works 'how much of the cost of your mobile phone bill do you think goes to BT , after all does that not use the network at some point if you are dialling a landline? 

Wind your neck in Phil, Your right I have no idea how it works, but if you read my post at no time did I mention a mobile phone, I was talking about my land line.

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M107
Quote

there are parts of the network in my area, which were giving trouble back in my day, and are still in service, and have only gotten worse.

Same here in fact large areas of Tilehurst in Reading are in Aluminium which causes no end of problems.

Quote

There is one main cable, feeding a small village, it's a 250 pair iirc and it's so badly damaged now that I think there are no spare pairs left to switch over to in  the event of a fault

My cousin who is still at BT  said they have the same issue at a small village in North Hampshire, so all they do when they get a service call is Megger the pair in case of moisture & swap the faulty pair with THE known working pair. This has been going on for a couple of years now apparently; so much so that the known working pair are labelled as such for engineers to know where it has been used last. 

5 hours ago, phil d said:

how much of the cost of your mobile phone bill do you think goes to BT , after all does that not use the network at some point if you are dialling a landline? 

I have no idea how much it is these days.......but when I had my training back on the Tacs system (then Etacs & then GSM) I believe the charge point to the mobile operator begins when the MSC pages the PSTN for set up  & sends Dial Digits plus specifies which PSTN trunk to use.

It was a long time ago now so it may have changed & I binned the old course notes long ago.

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rapparee

Who do the engineers fanny about. If it needs a new cable then just replace it. I am in constant debate with management crying to me about budgets, I told them it is none of my concern. I only care about maintaining the plant and machinery. Surely if the engineers told the managers that such and such a cable needed replaced and it no longer worked then it would have to be replaced.

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