Climate change

a subject I'm quite keen on, and the source of many long arguments here. I have 2 questions, without wishing to re-visit old arguments for those who thought I was talking non-sense previously:-

1/ are most people now agreed that climate change is happening and rapidly - nearly getting a hurricane off Ireland is an interesting development

2/ do people still believe it's all natural and not the fault of mankind?.

I'm not looking to re-visit the arguments, I'm more interested in changes of attitude ( if any) given various weather events of the last few years, melting ice cap reports and things like plastics in the sea.

There is a climate change , some say there is'nt .  

In 'ereford and 'artfordshire  'urricanes  'ardley ever 'appen . 

OK  I'm probably the oldest old git on here so I can assure you that as a child , winters were bitterly cold , it often snowed in November, December and it lasted until March & April .     I remember there being pockets of snow remaining in May , up on the Clent Hills one year.     And it was proper snow then , often a foot deep yet we drove about in our rear wheel drive cars. 

As a kid , the summers lasted forever  , it would that hot during the day you had to sleep downstairs where it was a bit cooler. 

The tarmac used to melt on the roads . 

Today , if it snows , its half an inch , no one can drive in it due to lack of experience, chaos reigns and its gone in two days.

Plastics in the sea ...we were warned about that by Thor Heyerdahl  after his Kon-Tiki raft expedition  and later in his Ra expedition.     Being down at sea level they saw the levels of pollution in the sea in the late 1950s ..early '60s.    

I remember a report on late night Radio 4  about a hole in the ozone layer over the antarctic many many years ago , it was hardly mentioned again  until recent years .   

Mankind is mainly responsible for destroying his own environment as I see it , there are far too many of us .   Population of   Britain in  1730  was  just over 10 million  ...today  it is 65 million . 

I agree climate change IS happening.

I do NOT agree it is ALL man's fault. In particular I do NOT agree it is all down to the cars we drive and all will be solved if we drive electric cars.

What about the CO2 we all (and the animals we raise to feed us) exhale 24/7? Is that not a contributor? But NOBODY will discuss over population of the planet as at least part of the problem.

As long as the politicians just hound the motorist as "the villian" and tax them out of existance, then I have no respect for the plan of action in place to solve the issue.

There is no plan Dave, they make it up as it suits. 

Is it inevitable that 'man' will destroy its own environment-  absolutely.

Is it something that has been advanced in happeneing since the industrial revolution- of course.

Will it continue-probably.

Will we care enough to change it- unlikely

will the problem be left to those after us- almost definitely   

1: yes, climate change is happening, and ive said that all along

2: natural and would have happened anyway, but were not helping things. not sure what plastic in the sea has to do with climate change either, but mankind is destroying everything. and if those 2 keep up with the my bombs bigger than yours everything will be destroyed a little sooner

cars are an easy target, but the recent targeting of cars is more to do with air pollution. Electric supposedly offers an easy fix, but I reckon batteries are a nuisance in themselves - all those nasty chemicals and heavy metals.....

Batteries are just a quick fix in my opinion.

Plastics are an offshoot of petrochemical industry. They don't cause climate change, but do kind of show how much oil we must be using/ have used, all of which indicates CO2 released. More importantly it shows how stupid people can be in the name of making money....a discussion for politicians perhaps?

for all you doubters  :^O . Bit lacking detail, I didn't think anyone would want to read the full report which is available on-line.

Of course there is climate change, it is undeniable. And what is generated by man is also undeniable. What seems ridiculous to me is that characters like Donald Trump who represent a country as important as the USA deny climate change: IGNORANCE!

he's not the only one, there's a few doubters on here I've been working on for years. I'm on a mission  :^O .

The general rub is that whilst few deny climate change, some still argue that puny humans can't be to blame  :shakehead . Don't know if you have been watching Blue Planet, but the fact that they found a plastic bottle at the bottom of the Mariana Trench, 7 miles down shows how we are affecting the planet. To me plastics, and the floating islands of rubbish are good indicators that puny humans can affect the world, lots of small things = big consequences. 10 billion puny humans doing lots of small things = big consequences. 

I have never denied climate change per se,  BUT I see it as futile cutting our emissions per person, if NOBODY will address the ballooning population size.

lead by example.

Best population reducer is the empowerment of women in third world countries, and it's quite interesting that many third world countries are adopting green tech fast, simply because it's a lot cheaper than building the infrastructure they don't have.

binky said:

To me plastics, and the floating islands of rubbish are good indicators that puny humans can affect the world, lots of small things = big consequences. 10 billion puny humans doing lots of small things = big consequences. 

Click to expand...

It is also true that some quite big major mess-ups by mankind can soon be reclaimed by nature and wildlife, over a relatively short period of time..

Take a look at how the area surrounding Chernobyl has changed since being abandoned back to wildlife...

http://www.sbs.com.au/guide/article/2017/03/15/how-nature-reclaimed-chernobyl

The problem is that those in power able to enforce change, are only in power for too short a time to make a significant change..

Then the next lot comes in!

So many leaders are just out to line their own pockets, in whatever way they can, whilst in power with the authority to make a difference to their own personal circumstances.

Very few have any real concerns for what is happening 10 years ahead, as by then they will not be in power..

Everyone of us who has worked for a medium to large company will know that certain "supervisors" or "managers" have only got to their position by blagging and waffle to those above them.  Very much a company 'yes' man, never question anything jut go with what appears the easiest solution.

Why would anyone think that political leaders would be any different?

Mankind thinks is knows lots about everything...

In reality it knows sod-all about not much!

Guinness

Chernobyl is still a very dangerous place, but the article does clearly indicate what Pro-Dave is getting at, and which I agree with:-

 'But even then, radiation has less of a negative effect than we do'

The trouble with a capitalist society is that the 'profit motive' is seen as being more important than anything else. I would not agree that politicians are doing nothing (too little too slow maybe) hence the lettuced like banning diesel car sales, like batteries will save the world! NOT! What politicians have been doing is putting a price ie tax on CO2 emmissions and stuff like waste disposal, to make it 'profitable' or at least 'cost effective' to go green(er). Trouble is big business is now global, so just buggers off to a country with less green taxes, and the general public moans that the price of a skip has rocketed. In fact the public moans about 50p, so drive politicians in the wrong direction from the bottom, as well as large corporations driving politicians from the top. IMHO we should apply tax to all imports that fail to meet EU standards - make it a level playing field for UK and EU business to compete with emerging economies. Might get some jobs back then!

I would defo agree short termism is a problem with in the political system, especially as we suffer a 2 party state. It really doesn't help, but then the short term view of people doesn't help much either. It will be interesting if Blue Planet has an affect on sales of plastics - nothing like showing the public what it means to throw plastics away irresponsibly, plus the public trusts David Attenborough. 

Plastics will be around for thousands of years, even if we stopped using them now (not that I could imagine life without them), so many other things will also be hanging around for millennia, like the death of many species of animals that can't cope with rapid change. It's easy to get all despondent and not bother, but there is 1 really good way of motivating large corporations, don't buy their products. Do people really need to buy a plastic bottle of water, when a robust bottle can be re-filled for years? On the odd occasion I buy a bottle of water, I keep the bottle and re-fill it from the tap many times before it eventually goes in the re-cycling bin. Billions of puny humans doing this can have a big effect, like wise reducing food waste, growing some food of your own (gardening is good for you), walking to the corner shop (probably quicker these days anyway), driving slightly slower ( OK not keen on that one myself if I have  along journey), and generally being less dependent on 'ready meals' with all the packaging, buying loose fruit and veg, cooking a bit more, which is healthier anyway, and spending less time sat on your arse watching lettuced TV, which is what most of the time saved after paying for convenience gets used for.  WE can change the world, it just takes some effort, like trying to persuade you lot that climate change is man made  :^O . 

I'm quite pleased that I seem to have persuaded most of you that climate change isn't natural  :happybunny:  It's taken a while!  :slap

Doesn't buying a bottled water then filling with tap water defeat the object of buying a bottled water in the first place? 

Howeveri do agree us us humans have more of an impact than we care to see. 

The tap water is probably healthier..... :^O .

Think about it, bottled water has not been treated in any size shape or form,  most bottled waters are actually spring water from a hole in the ground, (and some even filled from a tap - think that was Coca Cola's offerings). What health benefits do you get from clean water? Mains water has been filtered and treated to remove any nasty pests. Mineral water may have some health benefits, if you don't live in a hard water area already, but the main benefit is not being a sugar filled fizzy drink, and as these wonderful waters are dearer than milk,  a proper health food, why buy water? Some of them are dearer than beer per pint!