Starting out.

Hi everyone. 

Im 27 and currently looking at a career change. I have grown tired of office work and after saving for a number of years I am hoping to go into property development. In order to be able to make this change and reduce expenses I’m looking into gaining relevant skills that will reduce the cost of each project. I have time on my side and I am hoping to work on at least one project a year. This would mean investing my time and money should pay off. 

I am am currently looking at the viability of undertaking electrical qualifications and gaining enough experience in order to be able work independently. I would be open to do work for others in order to gain experience or for supplementary income if I have time. 

It’s great to find a site full of such good information and experience. 

What was your office job? 

What experience of property development do you have? 

The office job is in criminal justice sector dealing with legal issues. A lot of report writing. Very few transferable skills I believe.  

In in terms of property development, I’ve been around properties from the age of 16. My parents have held a small portfolio of properties to let and over the years I have assisted with and overseen general refurbishments and repairs. I also now have my own property I let out. We’ve never used to estate agents and have dealt directly with tenants and any problems. We have our go to tradesmen and I have never done any electrical work. 

watching is much easier than doing! Get your qualifications (avoid the 6 week wonder courses) and try a few simple things like swopping broken sockets. Even better see if you can get some experience with an electrician, but don't be too surprised if no-one is keen to take you on.

Thank you for your input. I have no doubts about the difficulties and challenges I will face when it comes to actually applying learning to the real world environment.

You say avoid the 6 week courses. These were what I was looking at as an initial introduction. I expect very little from these courses other than a very basic theoretical understanding. 

The qualifications I would attain are -

City & Guilds 2393 Level 3 Certificate in the Building Regulations for Electrical Installations in Dwellings.

City & Guilds 2382-15 17th Edition including the 3rd amendment.

Award in the Initial Verification and Certification of Electrical Installations.

There is also a PAT testing module as well as the NICEIC Online Knowledge Assessment.

My plan of action is to complete this course before approaching tradesmen I know/have used myself and beginning to assist them where possible.

Is there a course that I should also be looking at other than the ones above? Or an alternative route. 

depends how much you are paying and the training provider. There's quite a few scam outfits who will tell you, you are a fully qualified sparky and charge £6k for it. Have a look for similar postings on this forum, it crops up quite regularly. I would suggest searching retraining or similar term.

As someone who runs a one man operation, the costs i have to do what i do, only work out for me as i do it all the time.  If i was only going to rewire 1 house a year and spend the rest of the time been a builder, im not sure it would justify the costs of been an electrician. Spending all the time and money to be registered and up to date only works for me as i do it all the time.

Then if you do become an electrician and can charge your services out at £200+ a day, why would you do donkey work in a house when you can pay someone less then what you earn.

I would make sure you want to be an electrician, and become one and manage your property referb on the side.

If you just want to be an Electrician to work on your one project a year, it might work out more expensive then just paying soemone to do it.

Hi  Sum1989  ,

Doing those courses is one part of becoming an electrician  ( Forget the PAT testing  , thats basically pressing the button on a tester )    The difficult part is that you need a qualification that is only achieved by working with an approved contractor , possibly for 2 yrs , not sure on that , ( Someone will know)

If I was in your place ,  ie:-  Going into the property market  ...I would try to build up my building trade skills  to save on outgoings .

Scenario :-  

You have purchased a house that needs a deal of improvement , you need to do it up for sale or rental.

The bulk of the work you need to tackle could be ... a lot of labouring , filling a skip , dumping old furniture,  stripping wallpaper, 

Some re-plastering ,  replacing  rotten floor trusses  & boards ,  removing old plumbing , toilet , bath ,  strip out old kitchen , fit new kitchen ,  new tiling , painting , replacing windows .      

A tradesman who is an All Rounder could do all that  easily  , as you may be able to , but the specialist trades , Gas/ Heating / Electrics  are best done by the experts .    

You need to prepare yourself for some hard , dirty  work  and I think you'd be wasting a lot money on electrical courses .

Say if it took you 3 months to do a property up .....the electrical bit would be 2 weeks at the most . 

This is why an experienced building trade all rounder is the ideal guy to this sort of work .  

Very sound advice being given by the forumites, would suggest that you perhaps follow Mr Evans route as this would give you an insight to whether doing this type of work is better than sitting behind a desk! It can be real tedious and sometimes you'll feel like you're walking through treacle not getting anywhere, it's not for everybody. 

As said the more technical trades of heating/plumbing and electrics really need a competent person with relevant daily experience to get a safe and compliant install in a reasonable timeframe. 

If you are serious about being an electrician then you really don't want the 6week courses they will not give you the background theory and knowledge to really know what you are doing, they were initially for the old boys that had been working as a spark for many years but never achieved all qualifications. Talk to your local college about relevant electrics installation courses and the options you have. 

The qualification or certification that I need by working with an approved contractor is the bit I find a little confusing, many of these training sites say very little about this stage. I guess that’s part of their selling tactic to make the training process seem easier than it may actually be. 

Evans, in terms of the general labour I have a lot of experience in much of what you described as well as having a number of good value labourers we have used in the past. You are right when you give the example of electrical work taking 2 weeks out of 3 months. The electrical work does seem to be the more expensive aspect hence why I wish to gain these skills. I did consider plumbing but I do not feel i have the same interest in it as electrical work. 

Pewter I agree with you about it not making sense to undertake labour if I can make eg £200/day as an electrician. If I am confident and efficient enough to earn such a wage and the work is there I would most definitely do it. 

One project a year is my aim as I begin. That is due to initially having to sell one refurbished house before I purchase my second etc. Fortunately I feel as if I have time on my side as this is something I want to do until retirement. 

our work charges reflect the danger - we do get killed -  complexity of what we do, and our legal liability. It also reflects our overheads like insurance, registration fees etc etc. I think Pewter makes  a very valid point. Plasterers charge more than us anyway. 

The training courses only teach theory, the real  joy of learning a trade is always the 'hands-on' work and how to overcome problems, like fixing back boxes to 'lathe and plaster' walls. That is what you need the training from an experienced electrician for, and fault finding when some pillock bangs a nail through a cable. 

I retrained 14 years ago, but had the advantage of an apprenticeship within engineering - aerospace industry. This gave me  major advantage in that I knew an awful lot about using tools such as drills, marking out etc etc. The theory of electrics I found quite simple, house bashing and construction of buildings was a whole new ball game. I've learn't  a few new skills over the last few years from fitting solar panels - I now run cables under roof edges of say a porch, which I wouldn't have touched  a few years ago because i know a lot more about roofs than I did. These new skills were learn't from a roofer. The great joy of any trade is 'every day can be  a learning day', it's what makes it interesting.

Sum1989 said:

Hi everyone. 

Im 27 and currently looking at a career change. I have grown tired of office work and after saving for a number of years I am hoping to go into property development. In order to be able to make this change and reduce expenses I’m looking into gaining relevant skills that will reduce the cost of each project. I have time on my side and I am hoping to work on at least one project a year. This would mean investing my time and money should pay off. 

I am am currently looking at the viability of undertaking electrical qualifications and gaining enough experience in order to be able work independently. I would be open to do work for others in order to gain experience or for supplementary income if I have time. 

It’s great to find a site full of such good information and experience. 

Click to expand...

From what you describe I assume you mean you are looking at starting your own property development business? Any person who is expecting to make a success of a new business venture will need to have made some reasonably accurate budget calculations around their projected overheads etc..  When you say you are looking to reduce expenses by doing electrical work yourself, initially over a single project per year, have you done any formal budget calculations, or is it just a rough gut feeling that if I am doing it myself it must be cheaper? If reducing costs is an objective I cannot see the point in doing courses that have no relevance on your proposed line of work. (such as PAT?)  

To self certify your work you need to cover the costs for:

The initial training courses, plus any updates as and when the regulations change.

Copies of current wiring regulations, One site guide, Approved document P, Electricity at work guidance, and updates as a when these change, currently new regs books are about every 2 to 3 years.

The cost of your appropriate test equipment & tools. and suitable recalibration certification to verify your meters accuracy.

Then annually you will have:

Membership of one of the approved contractor schemes. (which includes annual assessment of you, your paperwork, a sample of your jobs completed over the past year, your health & safety policy, your previously issued electrical certificates, complaint log, meter accuracy and test log,

Public liability insurance covering you for electrical design, installation & testing.

If the bulk of the wiring on a project is electrically safe and you only need a new fuse box, a few accessory fronts replaced and the odd extra socket fitted, I can't see how it will be cheaper doing it yourself, It could take several years to recoup your outlay. Statistics show that a lot a small business ventures fail within the first five years, often this is down to inaccurate or unrealistic budget assumptions. Do your budget calculations include all of the above, (the list is not exhaustive), Also have you allowed for interest rates rising. and periods of little or no income due to delays in work or late payments etc.. What you are suggesting doing is not an impossibility, but may not be quite a rosy a you imagine. Remember many projects from; building, construction, IT, Home DIY, Ship building, Wedding planning etc. very often run over budget, or you don't get back as much as you thought you would get back. Double check the description of every course module you are considering purchasing. Also go have a face to face discussion with the head of your local college electrical dept, They will (should) have up-to-date information about what courses are relevant to you and/or if any are due to be superseded.

Doc H.

So the cold hard numbers:

fast track course about £6k plus books @ about £400

tools and mft about £1.5k

giving a total of about £8k

then annual costs of

scheme membership , Stroma is currently the cheapest at £288 plus calibration £75 and insurance at about £100

giving an annual cost of about £460

I would say it would be tricky using knowledge sparcely , keeping up with product changes and regs updates ......

you would probably save more getting some decent pm training and software.....

I'll just reiterate what I said above ,  you are going into property development   right ?     

In that case I see no sense in training as an electrician  in all honesty .  

I've come across two different types of property developers  :-  

1)    A bloke with plenty of cash , basically a businessman who doesn't like getting dirty and has no skills anyway .

        These are the ones who usually do really well at the game .   Just gets tradesmen in to do the work.

2)   Builders who may find they a it of spare cash so buy a rundown property and use their skills to do it up .

Please note that none of the above are electricians.   

What you seek sounds a good idea, but that is all it is, an idea, and what happens when you realise its not for you? There is more to it than running some wires and connecting a few switches. I would suggest if anything you aim to become a Project manager, build up good relationships with tradesmen for everything (That in its self is a job) That way when you need a property "done up" you know who to call who is good and who is better suited to some jobs than others.

Suppose everything fell into place and you became an electrician, a property you have needs a new boiler, oh dear you can't do it because you are not gas safe registered, so you have to then find some one you can trust, but if you are doing that, you cant be doing the extra work at the other property. But if you were the project manager you could get both jobs done (By trades people you know) the new boiler would be installed, the electrical work at the other place would be done, and everyone would be happy.

also has to be said, your boring office job has a regular income, which means you can get a mortgage and loans far easier than a tradesman.