Is moving notifiable and/or should become metal replacement?

Just thought I'd stick this on here for thoughts and opinions...

well all know:-  New CU or new circuits = Part P notifiable.

But what about:-  Moving a CU to opposite side of wall?

10way, Crabtree Split load board.

5x MCB's off RCD side.

2x MCB's and 2x RCBO's and one unused way off non-RCD side.

The 2 MCB's with no RCD protection are 6A light circuits.

Obviously plastic enclosure.

Other than the fact there are no previous certificates or inspection reports available,

it looks in to be pretty much an average CU, compliant with the period it was installed.

It's a new customer just bought house, (2up-2down semi),

and although many electricians say customers have never heard of Part P...  this one has.

and along with a few other minor odds and sods, (outside light, convert single to double socket, TV aerial etc),

is asking for fuse box to be moved out of garage into downstairs loo, (opposite side of wall), for easier access if circuit trips.

They were specifically asking about certificates and Part P.

which made me think...  Is it actually notifiable..??

If I don't add any extra circuits and it's not a new CU.... 

and altering existing circuits outside of special locations is non-notifiable..

Technically none of the work they want is within the scope of part P...

Unless we choose to change the CU for a bomb-proof metal coffin..

So the question pivots more around..

are you allowed to move a plastic fire trap without converting it to metal??

I don't recall doing a CU move without replacing it during move..

But this one does seem to be perfectly functional CU with RCD protection,

and a bit of a waste to replace just for the sake of metal "if required"..

Just pondering ???   ?:|     :huh:      :C

can't see any reason why you couldn't do this. Metal CUs are only needed where a board fire represents an additional fire risk, eg in under stairs cupboards that haven't been fire rated. A fire here could set fire to the stairs and prevent safe escape. If your new location is a downstairs loo (cloakroom if you are posh), then it's not in the fire escape route anyway. You would need to consider fire rating of wall to garage if making holes through it, ie you should fill holes with fire retardent pink stuff.

Thing is Specs  , the Regs tie you up .  The two lighting circuits , now you are associated with them , cannot be flush in walls without an RCD .

I'd say , if you asked the Electric Police  they'd say you have to throw the perfectly good  Starbreaker ??  board in the bin and as you say , fit an industrial metal board .  

However if it were me doing it  and the customer didn't want to pay for a new board and if it was a Crabtree Starbreaker , one of the best boards made ,  I'd just shift it .    Can't make them pay for a metal board !!   Nothing has changed , its just on another wall ...big deal ...under the 15th and 16th editions of the Regs  it was the bee's knees .  And at the end of the day , who's to know .     

Does the Starbreaker present a fire risk ?  I fitted hundreds of them and none of those did . 

As Shakespeare once said after rewiring Ann Hathaway's cottage ...."Ah!  To notify or not to notify...that is the question ,   whether 'tis nobler in the mind to bear the stings and arrows of the Electric Police  or to screw one's loaf and just do it ...for we are free thinking Englishmen  and should stand proud together on this , St. Crispian's Day...and lesser men who still abed will rue the day they did not stride forward ..to fight for ...ENGLAND   !!!!!      and St. George  ! "  

AH Sorry ...bit carried away there . :C   

This is interesting.

I have just quoted for a job. the CU at the moment is alongside the front door. The meter is above the door, so my job is move the CU further up the wall so it can all be boxed in above the door.

I told them I can't just move the old board, it has to be a new one, and they accepted that. Perhaps I was wrong?

I think , Dave,  in the true  interpretation  of the Regs ,  it has to be a metal one  and if they didn't mind paying for it  , so be it .  

But lets invent a scenario .

A customer wants to fix a cupboard to the wall , it won't fit because a plastic  C/U  , full of RCBos   etc   needs to be moved   one inch   (25mm)    to the left .    On inspection  you see that by removing two screws , you could ease it over  by 2 inches  and re-fix it .    

Do you do it ?

Or do you invoke the Great Yellow Book  and demand a metal board is fitted .  ? 

I know what I'd do . 

@ProDave I think the front door constitutes an escape route??

@SPECIAL LOCATION as long as you aren't modifying any of the circuits the electric police will be happy.

☇

I would ring Certsure or whoever dry reams you on a yearly basis.

do this on three different days and at different times. You have a good chance of getting three different people answering SO 3 different answers

pick the answer you want, get blokes name

simples

I've a Starbreaker board here less the DP incomer doing nothing.  (Might have another intact too). Got a 63A RCD in if you want to do the other half of the board...

ProDave said:

This is interesting.

I have just quoted for a job. the CU at the moment is alongside the front door. The meter is above the door, so my job is move the CU further up the wall so it can all be boxed in above the door.

Click to expand...

if they built a fire lined cupbaord it would be fine, but it's probably cheaper to fit a metal board than do that. Think I would still argue that 'it's only maintenance' so sod the metal board. 

Evans Electric said:

I think , Dave,  in the true  interpretation  of the Regs ,  it has to be a metal one  and if they didn't mind paying for it  , so be it .  

But lets invent a scenario .

A customer wants to fix a cupboard to the wall , it won't fit because a plastic  C/U  , full of RCBos   etc   needs to be moved   one inch   (25mm)    to the left .    On inspection  you see that by removing two screws , you could ease it over  by 2 inches  and re-fix it .    

Do you do it ?

Or do you invoke the Great Yellow Book  and demand a metal board is fitted .  ? 

I know what I'd do . 

Click to expand...

I see a difference between simply re-fixing and removing and re-installing in a different location... ie.

Removing the screws from a board and budging it over is one thing, its barely even counts as electrical work, its re-fixing an enclosure.

However if you disconnect all the cables, re-route or shorten them, re-mount the board and make it all off again, then you have effectivly un-installed the consumer unit, and are now re-installing it, what is installed needs to meet the requirements of the current edition and quite often re-using the board from before would not meet these.

I think  this is a difficult on to call. If it was in my house or a family/friends then maybe move it and carry out the testing to be satisfied you're happy then think no more of it. However if this is in a paying customers house then you have to ensure the authority such as scam are on the same song sheet because it could come back to bite you later and possibly reflect on your reputation. 

Plastic CU not in fire escape route is compliant with todays regs as I understand them.

binky said:

Plastic CU not in fire escape route is compliant with todays regs as I understand them.

Click to expand...

Have you tried to purchase one  lately Binky ?  

plenty on ebay

Evans Electric said:

Have you tried to purchase one  lately Binky ?  

Click to expand...

I've a couple of brand new, fully loaded, 15-way Wylex cus bought on a whim on some Electricfix special. A bit odd witb the Type C RCBOs buy hey ho. Keep meaning to eBay them.

https://www.screwfix.com/p/wylex-module-15-way-populated-high-integrity-dual-rcd-consumer-unit/8863f?_requestid=498500

Evans Electric said:

Have you tried to purchase one  lately Binky ?  

Click to expand...

yep, without success   

binky said:

yep, without success   

Click to expand...

 ? https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/Wylex-NH1904-19-Way-100a-Insulated-Consumer-Unit/1505385008?iid=253188863382&opts=opick&_trkparms=gclientid%3DRKV4AYPJ9a_KMB4Qr3f4jE1kpOwABGH7_J4b8owsvQkZVjW2EvVZa6Lkij-1udDT&_trksid=p2489528.m4335.l9564

binky said:

Plastic CU not in fire escape route is compliant with todays regs as I understand them.

Click to expand...

Binky,   All I can see  is it says Domestic (Household)   no mention of fire escape .   Thats in 421.1.202

I'd say  the Electric Police would have the cuffs on you  before you could shout "Rubber Grommets  to the lot of you !!!          :innocent

OnOff   Do you reckon they could be used in ,say,   a domestic garage ,remote from the house  ....or should you get a priest in to exorcise  them .  

OK, the ONLY requirement for a non-combustible consumer unit is within a domestic dwelling, or attached outbuilding whereby it is reasonable for a fire to propagate to the main building.

If the client is willing to have the existing board replaced, then fine.

It is still legal to fit plastic boards in domestic dwellings, BS7671 is NOT LAW.

The nearest thing to law apart from H&S legislation is Part P.

This does not require the fitting of a non-combustible consumer unit.

Neither in England nor Wales.

Therefore you are not breaking the law by fitting a plastic consumer unit.

I don't know what Scottish regulations require.

The only thing that you could be pulled on is not following industry best practice, however, you could argue back that you were complying with Building Regulations requirements.

Once again BS7671 is not aligned with building regulations.

The same as it is not for fire compartmentalisation.