M2 vs Crabtree fittings

Evening everyone, I'm new to the forum

I was directed here by a few people who suggested that I might get the info that I'm looking for on here so here goes

I live on a small development recently built in Northern Scotland.

The specification included among other brand names "Crabtree" electrical fittings.

When we have moved into the properties, the fittings are not Crabtree as stated, but a brand called M2 which appears to be distributed through CEF.

We are unable to find out much information about this brand and CEF have been particularly unhelpful.

We have had a number of problems with these fittings, mainly because of the flimsy nature of the moving parts especially on double and treble switches, and have had an instance of a face plate of a socket coming off the wall without much persuasion by a six year old

We are in the process of compiling a case against the developers as the specification of a number of items in the houses have been significantly downgraded from the original adverts and we believe that this is the case with the electrical fittings as well, but because none of us are electricians and with CEF's unwillingness to provide us with the relevant information. we are unable to prove this as easily as we have been able to with other products.

Can anyone give us an honest appraisal of the two products in terms of cost, quality and standards.

We believe that we have been given an inferior, cheaper product but we are struggling to be able to prove this so any help and advice would be appreciated

Thanks in Advance

not used M2 stuff so cant comment on its quality (or lack of), however, if it was specified that crabtree was to be used then tell them there are to replace everything with crabtree or you will get someone else to do it and invoice them, though courts if necessary

check the contract does specifically state crabtree only though, and its not open to other manufacturers

from a safety view though, they should all comply with relevant standards (BS1363 etc) so should all just just as safe as each other, although some go well above min requirements, some just scrape past them

Andy™ said:

not used M2 stuff so cant comment on its quality (or lack of), however, if it was specified that crabtree was to be used then tell them there are to replace everything with crabtree or you will get someone else to do it and invoice them, though courts if necessary

check the contract does specifically state crabtree only though, and its not open to other manufacturers

from a safety view though, they should all comply with relevant standards (BS1363 etc) so should all just just as safe as each other, although some go well above min requirements, some just scrape past them

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The missives state that specifications can be changed to products of an equivalent standard. We suspect that these M2 fittings are a lower cheaper standard than Crabtree, for a start it's pretty concerning that every electrician that I've spoken to (and I know a fair few) have never heard of M2

The developers have cut corners on a number of other products (Exterior Doors, Interior Doors, Sanitaryware etc) all of which have been replaced with cheaper, inferior makes, so it is a natural reaction to assume that they have done something similar with the electrical fittings

maybe someone here has a trade account with CEF and can get some prices compared to crabtree

they will all comply with the same standards so unless contract states crabtree only to be fitted then you have no comeback. the contract saying 'products of an equivilent standard' pretty much left the door open for them to use the cheapest ****e they can find

Like Andy , I 've never heard of M2  but as he says , it SHOULD be made to the relevant British Standard .  

And again , as Andy says  ,  if  someone took the trouble to specify Crabtree  then Crabtree it should be .   

I've seen many examples of fitting cheaper  stuff than the specification  demands ,   which is often explains why  all the other  contractors  failed  and this one  won . ...   he  knew he was going to fit cheaper stuff . 

Although now made abroad to British designs , Crabtree , still quite a well made , sturdy accessory .    I would double check what your specification says  and if its definitely Crabtree  then go for it ,   you've been ripped off by someone trying to save a buck  at your expense.  

M2 , it appears , is  made in Redditch  and is one of  the makes  available  from the CEF chain  ,  hence no one has heard of it .  

Gartenwood said:

The developers have cut corners on a number of other products (Exterior Doors, Interior Doors, Sanitaryware etc) all of which have been replaced with cheaper, inferior makes, so it is a natural reaction to assume that they have done something similar with the electrical fittings

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Yep  that sounds about par for the course  I'm afraid .    

I was thinking in those terms before I read  that above.

I  could quote you a huge development at a university that specified  a top quality door closer  and the cheapest , lowest quality were fitted .

Imagine hundreds of doors , and like schools , all  opening & closing all day long ....a domestic quality closer isn't going to last the course ,   doors were  a lower spec as well  , whole thing a rip off   and unfair on the  unsuccessful contractors  who tendered. 

Sounds like arses have been covered  on your contract ..... could always threaten to go public and name names .

Who would buy a house from these guys ???    

Gartenwood said:

We are unable to find out much information about this brand and CEF have been particularly unhelpful

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HHhhmmmm    what can one say . ? 

M2:

http://www.m2electrical.co.uk/index.php/about-us

Evans Electric said:

Yep  that sounds about par for the course  I'm afraid .    

I was thinking in those terms before I read  that above.

I  could quote you a huge development at a university that specified  a top quality door closer  and the cheapest , lowest quality were fitted .

Imagine hundreds of doors , and like schools , all  opening & closing all day long ....a domestic quality closer isn't going to last the course ,   doors were  a lower spec as well  , whole thing a rip off   and unfair on the  unsuccessful contractors  who tendered. 

Sounds like arses have been covered  on your contract ..... could always threaten to go public and name names .

Who would buy a house from these guys ???    

HHhhmmmm    what can one say . ? 

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I come from a Timber/Joinery background so I can nail them on the doors - what they've done is promised us a Porsche and delivered a Dacia Duster.

I've got buddies in the place where they got the sanitaryware from - what they did there beggars belief (basically cancelled an order for a half decent product to buy a job lot of a cheap range which was being discontinued) so I can only imagine that the electric fittings will not be to the standard of Crabtree - within 6 weeks of us moving in, two of the double light switches were starting to disintegrate (toggles becoming loose and the power to the light becoming erratic)

The developers were well respected in this part of the world but this is starting to look like a bunch of old lags doing once last job before scarpering to the Costa Del Crime with the swag as it appears to be their last development before retiring

I think the issue here maybe in the wording

'same standard'.   Or 'same quality'

all,sockets will be to the same standard BUT the quality will vary wildly

IF M2 is made in Redditch.  CEF Own RPP which is Redditch Plastic Products and makes their sockets .......coincidence?

personally I ( along with many others) would not touch any of CEFs own brand stuff with a sticky brown stick

http://www.rpp.uk.com/index.php/products/m2.html

Guinness

Plus a Picture....

http://www.rpp.uk.com/index.php/about-rpp

kerching said:

F M2 is made in Redditch.  CEF Own RPP which is Redditch Plastic Products and makes their sockets .......coincidence?

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Yep   ....same address  in Redditch .  

The building trade is long overdue for sorting out ......the powers that be love to turn their spotlight upon the Gas & Electric installers  but are scared to death of the building trade  which has been full of crooks & charletons for years .

I've just corrected electrics on a small kitchen extension up my road  ,    if the builder was a doctor he'd be struck off .  !!!

His sparks has "gone back to Africa"   , no intention of adhering to Part P  ,     builder was asking for final payment ....no sanitary ware in   toilet / shower ...no skirtings , no architraves .      

Both local councils I used to work for insisted on crabtree, one of which also insisted on crabtree starbreaker boards the other insisted on wylex but all accessories were Crabtree.

Had a box of m2 switches iirc rejoycing when they were all gone.

Not great IMO.

Just remembered......RPP sockets had dual terminals at the back whichnwere v handy at times. Never bought any just came across them on one site.

other than that I have never been impressed with any of their own brand stuff : but I am fairly new to this  :innocent

It appears Redditch Plastic Products Limited are dissolved according to a couple of sites:

https://companycheck.co.uk/company/01167050/REDDITCH-PLASTIC-PRODUCTS-LIMITED/companies-house-data

https://www.duedil.com/company/gb/01167050/redditch-plastic-products-limited

The directors from the first link are all directors of CEF according to this:

https://companycheck.co.uk/company/00336408/CITY-ELECTRICAL-FACTORS-LIMITED/companies-house-data

The current Redditch Plastic Products is seemingly no longer Ltd.

On the RPP site they state:

"RPP was established in 1974 and has been in continuous business under one ownership ever since". 

According to the first link, the dissolved Redditch Plastic Products Limited was incorporated in 1974.

Coincidence?  :innocent

kerching said:

other than that I have never been impressed with any of their own brand stuff : but I am fairly new to this  :innocent

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Kerch has only about 45  years in the trade .....bloody newcomers !!  :innocent

Evans Electric said:

Kerch has only about 45  years in the trade .....bloody newcomers !!  :innocent

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Yeah, but there are some on here who know it all  :facepalm:

kerching said:

Just remembered......RPP sockets had dual terminals at the back whichnwere v handy at times. Never bought any just came across them on one site.

other than that I have never been impressed with any of their own brand stuff : but I am fairly new to this  :innocent

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Click onto the picture showing the back of the M2 range: http://www.m2electrical.co.uk/index.php/wiring-accessories/13a-2-gang-double-switched-socket-dark-brown.html

A rose by any other name... and all that

Can come up with a few inventive things that RPP should stand for :innocent

I have Googled  M2   &  RPP  etc  and clicked on a couple of the links   and it has resulted in Norton throwing up a warning box  saying an attack has been detected  , it's source is the  www.M2   etc etc   .

Is  this CEF  fighting back ? 

M2 i think is CEF's own brand product, they do MCBs and boards in this range too - it is definetly inferior to Crabtree, in my opinion. I rarely shop in CEF, but what few bits I've had from there have been OK-ish Still, could have been worse, they could have fitted Marbo!

A socket falling off the wall is unlikley to be a product issue even with M2, I would say it was poorly fitted in the first place.