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Evans Electric

What do think the biggest changes in our trade have been?

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Onoff
22 minutes ago, rapparee said:

God your girls are lucky, I could only offer 3 1/2" when floppy

:Blushing

:coat

 

I heard you had an Amstrad! :)

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Tony S
7 hours ago, apprentice87 said:

 

I am no expert at all in these matters, but it seems to me that the root of all this was that courgettewit Thatcher. The attack on the miners [who were later proved entirely correct] was nothing but "class war" The courgettewit knew that she had to destroy the unions and turn people against each other, and was prepared to do just that at any cost.

 

Meanwhile, joe public was allowed to go and buy up all the social housing at a fraction of what it cost. House prices went up, [as they would]. and half of these muppets took out further mortgages, and also turned their backs on the unions, as they had convinced themselves that they were now "middle class" and what did they want to be in a union for.

 

Now they were up a creek without a paddle.. back in the union days, there was NO WAY that you were going to be allowed to work as an electrician unless you actually were one, and secondly, you had "job demarkation" I remember in the hospital years ago, i was going to change a light bulb, and once i was going to paint a wall. On both occasions i was told "NO WAY" as apparently the whole lot would have walked out on strike..

 

No though, anyone can call themselves an electrician, and, having destroyed their own unions and trapped themselves into great big mortgages, the average worker could not even afford to go on strike even if they wanted to.

 

They undid EVERYTHING the labour movement had done to improve the lot of the working man.

 

Now they wonder why people from Romania think they can do a 3 month course and turn up here and be an "electrician" Fact is, they CAN... They might not get a job in industry, but the average householder does not care, all they want is it works and it was cheap. Think the government will help?? Dream on. It suits them. NO WAY do they want the working man to regain any sort of organised group power, if you like. Divide and rule, and that is what they have done.

 

You have all undermined yourselves...

 

john..

 

Demarcation, the bain of British industry. Ten men to do one mans job.

 

John you know nothing of those days and the economic problems demarcation caused.

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apprentice87
15 hours ago, Tony S said:

John you know nothing of those days and the economic problems demarcation caused

 

Nope, maybe not, BUT, when you had "demarcation" you electricians were specialists. Nobody else did your job.. You were either an electrician or you were not.. The hospital was wired in proper screwed and socketed conduit and beautifully installed pyro, all with decent accessories too, that will all outlast the rest of the place.

 

Now?? Surface mounted plastic conduit. El cheapo chinese ****, [but rebranded as "quality" makes] accessories, and 99% of electrical work is done by "jack of all trades, master of none" 5WW, often foreign, muppets, and you PROPER electricians, have all been largely squeezed out..

 

Ask yourselves who is to blame??? Not the government, not the IET, not all the "training" providers... I will tell you exactly who is to blame, yourselves... Where were YOU when the miners were out?? That was the thin end of the wedge, but nobody seemed to care, they deluded themselves that they were all "middle class" now, and so what did they want to worry about a load of "thick mucky [often welsh too] miners for" All communists i tell you"

 

Well, you are worrying now...

 

john..

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Murdoch
On 1/13/2018 at 11:45, rapparee said:

I know of some fire alarm guys who have trackers in their vans. If they spend longer than necessary for a job they get a phone call, looking to know what's happening.

 

Theres a local maintenance company that have tracker in their vans - so the guys are often seen reading the paper sitting in the wholesalers car parks - ..... very regularly too.

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binky

Demarcation disputes, that is going back a long way - Liverpool docks was most famous - the chalk line dispute. I would agree that the Trade Unions had got completely out of hand in places and cuased a lot of unnecessary loss of earnings for the UK. However, we now seem to have swung too far the other way, with bugger all or 'self regulation' leading to hordes of incompetent persons doing things they shouldn't touch. About the only thing driving standards back up abit is Insurance companies by refusing to payout damages when incompetent persons have been involved. I did a little job changing a single phase meter for a solar system the other day, something any spark could do, but the FiT provider insisted it could only be done by an MCS registered person, ie me!

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apprentice87

A few examples..

 

Teachers.. instead of employing more, they now have "teaching assistants" [half trained, cheaper] [soft crappy union]

 

Policemen instead of employing more, they now have "PCSO's" [half trained, cheaper] [soft crappy union]

 

Nurses instead of employing more, they now have "HCSW" [health care support worker] [half trained, cheaper] [soft crappy union]

 

Electricians, etc etc etc Half, no, 5% trained 5ww types, all doing away with your jobs [all thought you were above unions...]

 

Firemen..... Seen any 5ww east european firemen have we?? thought not.. PROPER union..

 

Now, who do you think got it right????

 

john..

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Tony S

Demarcation:

 

A motor burns out.

A mate and I test the motor and disconnect it.

A fitter and mate take out the holding down bolts and remove the coupling.

The slingers and riggers get the motor to the loading bay.

The transport department takes the motor to stores.

I go to stores to fill out the paperwork.

 

And on it goes, an hours job turns in to a full day. A day of lost production which knocks on in to lost bonus for the workers.

 

 

The miners:

 

While I had every sympathy for their cause, flying pickets trying to stop me getting to work got no sympathy.

 

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binky
34 minutes ago, Tony S said:

Demarcation:

 

A motor burns out.

A mate and I test the motor and disconnect it.

A fitter and mate take out the holding down bolts and remove the coupling.

The slingers and riggers get the motor to the loading bay.

The transport department takes the motor to stores.

I go to stores to fill out the paperwork.

 

And on it goes, an hours job turns in to a full day. A day of lost production which knocks on in to lost bonus for the workers.

 

 

The miners:

 

While I had every sympathy for their cause, flying pickets trying to stop me getting to work got no sympathy.

 

 

That was a rediculous way of working and best long gone, however, it has to be said it was probably safer!

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Kurt

In 1982 i was sent over to the Mid West Oklahoma to work on our sister plant . Well as a 19 year old i had no fixed ideas on how things should work . In the UK, we had a welder, fitter, electrician, tool fitter, etc etc. When i went to the states i saw the same man, repair a machine and he did all the jobs, including welding, to get the plant running again. I admit that this was OK for the vast majority of faults and his skills in any one field were not as high but their maintenance debt was tiny compared to ours and their downtime was no less.

It did rather stick in my mind and as our products were purchased by international companies who could buy competitor products from anywhere in the world is was pretty obvious our working practices , if continued , would result in the death of the company in the uk.

 

So by all means look to Unions to save the day, but who is going to buy our stuff, no customers = no business=no employees=no union

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Evans Electric
On 14/01/2018 at 18:03, Kurt said:

So by all means look to Unions to save the day, but who is going to buy our stuff, no customers = no business=no employees=no union

Exactly ...and no businesses  =  no NHS... no benefits ..... no pensions   etc .   

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Sharpend

Then we could do away with money as it would have no value (not that it has any anyway) and we’d all be free!!!!

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BVK

Hi all, new poster.

 

Biggest changes? Well funny enough I have been doing a sort of business development plan today as a small business.  Nothing  too complex, just working out where we are and where they want to be.  So I wrote out what the industry was like from as business point of view 10 years ago and now. Now this is for jobs of say £30k -  £100k, but most fairly small commercial fit out run into that.

 

So 10 years ago I used to receive drawings an specifications my mail. Not usually too complex as paper and postage cost money so the clients tended to send the minimum.

 

5 years ago I received the same stuff but by email as PDF's, occasional as zip files. But usually not too complex.

 

Now we get sent a drop box file with every drawing door the entire building project, the mech specification, 200 page electrical specification, and on, and on. So pricing a job has become blooming complicated and time consuming. 

 

Nearly by every job requires design calls and cad drawing to the latest version of AutoCad. So that's a lot of time and subscription money.

 

in five years from now the same jobs will probably require to be done on Revit and be fully BIM standard.

 

so it worries me that in five to ten years, the only jobs a micro business will be able to do will be small domestic work, and small commercial jobs and maintenance. The really big boys will have taken us out of the equation.

 

i might be wrong but that is certainly what I am seeing drop on my desk.

 

 

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Evans Electric

Well computers have taken thousands  of other jobs , why not ours .

 

About 15 yrs ago  we were working at a local factory , their boss asked us to go through the offices and  isolate and make safe all the electric except lighting . 

 Half glazed  1950's offices , Accounts, Buying ,  Wages,   design ,  etc    All empty , desks , chairs,  filing cabinets , box files, defunct telephone s  , calender  5 years out of date .      

I said it was like the Marie Celeste ....their boss said well thats what happens when you computerize  systems  , all those jobs went .   

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Tony S

I’ll admit, before I retired I spent more time in front of a computer than with a screwdriver in my hand.

 

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BVK

Well I wasnt saying jobs would disappear, I was saying that micro companies that at present can carry out jobs as a contractor up to £250k - £500k. Five years from now I think they may not be able to because the pre qualification questionnaire will probably insist on Revit.

 

so the jobs theirselves will not go, but the contracts will be taken away from small contractors and only be handed out to the larger contractors, or the few small contractors that have invested in Cad, Revitalise, been on BIM course, etc.

 

now that will be a big change, which is what the post was asking about. And more fundamental that the SDS drill.

 

 

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