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Ok i am building a large distro  system it will have 125amp input with mccb protection to 32amp and 16amp outputs which i was going to protect with mcb but i see that 18th regs say all protection most now be rcbo

 
I have looked on rubberbox site and they use mcb protection on there outputs and are used outdoors ?  

 
Ok i am building a large distro  system it will have 125amp input with mccb protection to 32amp and 16amp outputs which i was going to protect with mcb but i see that 18th regs say all protection most now be rcbo


OK, you are designing and manufacturing a product to be placed on the market.

Therefore you are taking on the responsibilities of the manufacturer.

You must ensure that as far as reasonably practicable your product is safe and complies with the essential health and safety requirements of the relevant legislation & directives.

You can do this in one of two ways, design and manufacture in accordance with harmonised standards, or, do a full suite of design FMEA's that prove that the product is as safe as it woul be following harmonised standards, and then store these in your technical file along with all of your other design calculations and documented design decisions, the inevitable design and operational FMEA's that will crop up even if you go down the standards route.

Then you need to define the conditions of use, and identify any and all foreseeable misuse.

All this must take into account current state of the art.

Now, BS 7671 expects socket outlets that may be used to feed equipment outdoors is protected by an RCD.

That would be considered state of the art.

Now you could put in your instructions that if the unit is not fitted with an RCD, then the supply circuit must be RCD protected, however, is it foreseeable that it would be used outdoors, or to power equipment used outdoors form a non RCD protected circuit.

I would say yes it is foreseeable.

Now can your professional indemnity insurance covering the design, and your product liability insurance covering the manufacture and supply of the product cover you for something that is reasonably foreseeable, that you could have mitigated in your design and manufacture, but chose not to.

Could you justify that decision when in the dock in court on charges of negligence which caused the death of a person or persons?

Over to you.

 
7909 is for temporary installations yes Andy, but he isn't specifying that it is temp, though they normally are, & IIRC 7909 requires RCD's for external also.

Oh and no the 18th does NOT require all RCBO's it requires that the leakage on an RCD is kept below a certain level I think from memory the DPC said 10% and the 18th is not yet finalised anyway.

The final draft was still being discussed by JPEL64 last week I was told by one of the panel members, though it is not expected to change in technical content only in error correction and editorial/layout corrections etc.

 
Oh and no the 18th does NOT require all RCBO's it requires that the leakage on an RCD is kept below a certain level I think from memory the DPC said 10% and the 18th is not yet finalised anyway.


Anyone got a clue how we are supposed to be calculating this?

The final draft was still being discussed by JPEL64 last week I was told by one of the panel members, though it is not expected to change in technical content only in error correction and editorial/layout corrections etc.


Any idea when this "member" actually last got their hands dirty? 

I can't imagine it was in the last 20 years............

 
Anyone got a clue how we are supposed to be calculating this?

Any idea when this "member" actually last got their hands dirty? 

I can't imagine it was in the last 20 years............


Actually, it was he still works for a test equipment manufacturer on development kind of stuff, so he actually goes on site with prototype test equipment with contractors to do field trials for example.

 
Hum '....... So not really the coal face then...
None of them are, some are nearer to the work than others.

Do you really think that the average electrician these days remember I am saying average, not good, or excellent, would be able to write the regs then?

Would you hand the regs over to the NICEIC, or a bunch of sparks who may well not actually be qualified in anything apart from a 17th course?

 
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