Code query / advice needed .

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Evans Electric

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We tested these premises some years ago and decided to  "Pass"   sockets not protected by RCDs   , basically under the  proviso of then being "under supervision "  /  being surface conduit /  being indoors .   

This time around we have the  " All sockets to protected by RCD "      Boards are old  rewirables  circa 1966 , c/with asbestos  flash shields .

My dilemma is ,    can I sign it off as "Satisfactory"   due to it  complying with the regs current at the time of installation   ( 13th  / 14th  editions  )  or do I put on my Electric Policeman's Hat  and condemn the boards ?       

 
all sockets being RCD is not until 18th ed, amd3 still allows non-RCD sockets if there is a risk assessment or for a specific item
Well knowing this place Andy ,   there won't be a risk assessment  and the sockets are general use , in a car repair workshop  plus the office for MOT bay etc . 

In my opinion ...workshop sockets  serving  hand held electric tools  , devices  and  inspection lamps    =   an RCD   

( I see what you mean , just referred to 411.3.3  ......Domestic sockets , it implies , should always  have RCD s.    

Edit;    I'd say , from seeing EICRs from other contractors  at various places , that they would condemn the 3036  boards out of hand .  

 
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The ultimate risk assessment is yours..

and the bottom line is your gut feeling of the probability that anything could go pear shaped later...

and how good your insurance & legal team are if it does!

The satisfactory / unsatisfactory assessment is with relation to continued use of the installation in its current state...

Is it safe to carry on using it as it is....?

If not.. how easy is it for someone to point a big finger at you for negligence in your assessment?

:C

 
Knowing the way mechanics treat power tools I would RCD the lot. What about point of use RCDs?

 
Knowing the way mechanics treat power tools I would RCD the lot. What about point of use RCDs?


Absolutely.....

A few years back I did this very thing,  fitted around 18 RCD metal-clad double sockets in place of Non-RCD jobbies..

Protects the individual without wiping out the next guy along when someone's RCD trips!

(  Had to do it after hours, no labels on board...

didn't realise bloke was working in one of the offices when I accidentally turned if off!!! )

Guinness  

 
Asbestos in boards is a C2 for a start.

It's potentially deadly.

Next one, 3036 boards are acceptable for use and installation even today, so you can't code on that unless you can't verify that the fuse wire is the correct size.

If you can and it is no code.

if you can and it isn't then C2.

If you can't check then FI.

If the cpc on a ring final on 30A fuse wire is 1mm sq wire then you need to do the adiabatic as likely it won't pass, and thus becomes a C3, unless you can prove otherwise by calculation.

If the socket outlets are not RCD protected and no RA then C2.

Remember you are there to inspect, & test, you are not the electric police and you cannot force them to do anything.

Also remedial guidance is not part of an ECIR.

You can submit that as part of a secondary document but an EICR should not state things like, xyz should be replaced, it can state that xyz should be replaced because it is damaged and poses a danger of fire/electric shock (delete as applicable) and does not comply with reg "number whatever".

Really it should not say things like:

Worksop socket outlets not rcd protected, C2, sockets should be replaced by RCD types.

It should just say something like:

Worksop socket outlets not rcd protected, C2, sockets not protected by an rcd represent a danger of electric shock to users.

In a separate document you could say that there are several options for remedying that for example:

Fit RCD socket outlets, fit an RCD into the circuit near the origin, (remember this can be downstream of the over current device), replace the distribution board with one that has rcd's or rcbo's fitted within.

 
As always ,  some excellent advice there from all replies ,  I shall be taking it all on board .  

A few of my C3,s  will be changed to C2,s .

The asbestos in boards has been a bone of contention for the last 15 yrs  or so since we began doing jobs on the complex .        Although we have changed some boards , the  owners are in denial.  

 
As always ,  some excellent advice there from all replies ,  I shall be taking it all on board .  

A few of my C3,s  will be changed to C2,s .

The asbestos in boards has been a bone of contention for the last 15 yrs  or so since we began doing jobs on the complex .        Although we have changed some boards , the  owners are in denial.  


You should not be removing boards which have an ACM in them!

You should be cutting all cables and containment external to the untouched board, then getting a specialist in to remove the board and dispose of.

ACM's are a nasty beast.

The owners must, have an Asbestos survey of their property done prior to any works to be compliant with the law.

The issue is, if you demand this, some other idiot will come along and do the work without, thus endangering all around, and perpetuating the race to the bottom that is the growing incompetence in the electrical industry.

 
 You'd think   :C , so thanks  , theres more there than I could find ....I saved some of that  for my own use   but I don't think they'd thank me  TBH  .  They've had an asbestos survey done  two years ago .  If their main board was removed in the approved manner  they'd be off line for a month .    I'll just item it and move on ...  Theres remedials to do in another area , welder sockets etc 

and two more units I didn't know they owned  to EICR  

 
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