Brexit discussion anyone ??

Putting my cards on the table ..I was a Remainer .       I thought it was a big mistake  but I'm open to discussion . 

I  voted to  join the "Common Market"   all those years ago  but we were lied to then ,  all I can remember is that we were joining  to give us a much bigger market for our goods & services , theres nothing to be concerned about .   Yeah  right . 

Today I hear that Airbus  and BMW  are looking at withdrawing from the UK  ...I think it just the beginning .    Last week  I heard that Land Rover will move the Discovery out of the country .

I do remember before we joined  there were tariffs on imports & exports ,  take cars ,   I don't think many bought our cars in volume  and it was quite odd to spot a foreign car here .

We didn't know how to pronounce  Citroen  or Peugeot   and the only German car was the Beetle  . 

Now of course we have lost 90%  of our car industry .

None of us who voted to remain or leave had the first idea what it entailed   , It was a knee jerk anti immigration vote  IMHO  .   

Does anyone know  the pro & cons of a soft or hard border with  the Republic of Ireland  for instance. ?  

I was a remainian, although there were some strong arguments for leaving, I selfishly believed that brexit would cause financial difficulties for me and my family.

And so it was thus; the price of goods are rocketing skyward, traditional job's are few and far between as many are forced to join the gig economy, tech companies are queuing at the border with manufacturing not far behind.

Soon the banks will be gone and there will be nothing left except a mountain of cheap Chinese plastic ****e for us to fight over.

Hard brexit, soft brexit, any brexit equals bad.

The EU and the USA are in combat about tariffs ..... and they will prove that tariffs aren’t the answer ........ free trade is the answer, but the EU is all about tariffs and protectionalism...

Long term I think Brexit will be good, short term we are courgetteed, and I now regret voting to leave.

Why#s that them? Simples we have gone about it all the wrong way. It is clear we should have not have invoked article 50 when the government is clearly keen to stay in EU market, we should have stayed in and negotiated out of the things that enrage people like fishing and immigration. 

Given a re-run, I reckon the vote would be to remain.

Murdoch said:

........ free trade is the answer, but the EU is all about tariffs and protectionalism...

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that's fine if the rest of the world plays on a level playing field, but they don't.

The whole thing is a sad state of affairs that could have been avoided.

It all stems back to the Mastricht and Lisbon treaties imho.  There were a lot of things there, the ever greater integration stuff, that a lot of people were not happy about. We were promised a referendum on that, but we never got it. then it was too late, it was a done deal.

So no wonder when we finally did get a vote, it went the "wrong way"

Had we got a vote on those treaties, we might have rejected one, then it would have been re negotiated, toned down a bit and probably accepted.  But no, lets not give the stupid public any say in their future.  Then everyone is surprised when finally, thanks yo UKIP we do get a say, and it is not what they wanted to hear.

5 years and counting to retirement. Can't come soon enough.

Tory anti-EU press doesn't help, but lets be frank, few people understood what leaving really mean't ( including me) or the rediculously long time scale involved. IMHO the longer it drags out the worse the economy will fair after giving large companies time to plan leaving the UK. It's a firkin mess pure and simple!

Evans Electric said:

Does anyone know  the pro & cons of a soft or hard border with  the Republic of Ireland  for instance. ?  

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I live only a mile from that very border but I view Brexit as an opportunity and voted for it. I don't believe the so-called "EU" has any place in the world and never have believed that it does.

Brexit - Cameron - a remoaner, gets replaced, not with someone who is pro leave but someone who is also a remainer. So why did he resign? Staying in the customs union, all the other concessions to satisfy the unelected Lords who want to throw spanners in the works. We are being sold down the river. There will be little difference in or out if the government have their way. 

I voted leave and have no regrets. I was asked for my opinion and I acted on it along with the other 52% of the electorate. 

We were promised, freedom from EU beurocracy, controls over immigration, better trade links, more money for the NHS (which has now materialised with a tax bill for us) and many more empty promises. 

I guess we wont know the reality of it until we are out.

The EU is a sinking ship with other rats sure to start jumping off before long.

Long live Great Vritain.

I consider the referendum was a fiasco. There was absolutely nothing upon which to base a decision, just blatently transparent propaganda that was based on the wishful thinking of minority groups and individuals.

No consideration was given to the practicalities which now appear important such as managing borders, trade, operating multi-national companies,etc. The reason for that omission is now clear,  --- no-one had paused to think it through.

I personally am rather pessimistic about our collective national ability to set up "new" arrangements. We seem somehow to have lost organisational ability.  

In the North at least our railways are in chaos.  More examples of lack of planning and clear thinking are easy to find.

With the latest mess regarding supplies of CO2 we seem well on the way to showing that we can't even organise the proverbial P up in a brewery!

Right or wrong I voted out............just thought we should be in control of our laws, our rights, our trade deals, our right to have controlled immigration, our own destiny & our sovereignty.

As Geoff says the whole thing was poorly planned poorly executed & didnt go how the political powers thought it would.

I believe our governing powers want the whole brexit thing, kicked around for so long we will either be told we dont know what we really want & so we are staying in or we will be like Iceland paying to be in but having no option to vote on anything.

My prediction.... if we do not met the expectations of the leave voters, the next turn out for a general election will be woeful; after all why vote for those to be in charge that do not fulfil the populations majority vote? .......... this could lead to a major problem for all & let the likes of terrorist appeaser Corbyn & his mathematical expert Abbot through the door of number 10 or even worse some real far right clowns could creep in.

ProDave said:

The whole thing is a sad state of affairs that could have been avoided.

It all stems back to the Mastricht and Lisbon treaties imho.  There were a lot of things there, the ever greater integration stuff, that a lot of people were not happy about. We were promised a referendum on that, but we never got it. then it was too late, it was a done deal.

So no wonder when we finally did get a vote, it went the "wrong way"

Had we got a vote on those treaties, we might have rejected one, then it would have been re negotiated, toned down a bit and probably accepted.  But no, lets not give the stupid public any say in their future.  Then everyone is surprised when finally, thanks yo UKIP we do get a say, and it is not what they wanted to hear.

5 years and counting to retirement. Can't come soon enough.

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If the uk voters had been given a chance to vote on the Lisbon treaty, which Tony Blair promised, the UK would have rejected it ......

that is why we weren’t given a vote

My position on it all now, is hard exit now or don't leave at all. I'm tired of all the uncertainty. Reality is, to trade with the EU we will end up having to comply with most of it's legislation anyway, but as we won't be a member, we will end up paying for access without being able to influence the legislation.

As @Geoff1946 has also pointed out, we don't have the institutions to run the economy/ borders/ anything any more, and I doubt we can afford to pay for new ones. 

Geoff1946 said:

With the latest mess regarding supplies of CO2 we seem well on the way to showing that we can't even organise the proverbial P up in a brewery!

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My understanding is the CO2 issue is Europe wide and not limited to the UK?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/06/22/caused-uks-carbon-dioxide-shortage/

Murdoch said:

If the uk voters had been given a chance to vote on the Lisbon treaty, which Tony Blair promised, the UK would have rejected it ......

that is why we weren’t given a vote

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Precicely. And the result might have been that the EU remained more of a common market and less of a United States of Europe, and more of us might have been happy to remain in that.

I think a LOT of people were angry at the time of being promised a referendum and then denied it.  It took UKIP to drum up enough anti EU sentiment to get us a referendum, at last, and I honestly believe a lot of people voted out, of spite for not having a say sooner.

It is VERY disappointing that Nigel Farage did not stick around to become one of the chief negotiators, to ride off into the sunset "job done" was despicable. Likewise David Cameron resigning.

BOTH sides told a LOT of lies. What happened to the instant recession, and emergency budget and tax rises as soon as we voted out?  That just proves the economy just gets on with it, usually in SPITE of what government does and rarely because of it.

ProDave said:

Precicely. And the result might have been that the EU remained more of a common market and less of a United States of Europe, and more of us might have been happy to remain in that.

I think a LOT of people were angry at the time of being promised a referendum and then denied it.  It took UKIP to drum up enough anti EU sentiment to get us a referendum, at last, and I honestly believe a lot of people voted out, of spite for not having a say sooner.

It is VERY disappointing that Nigel Farage did not stick around to become one of the chief negotiators, to ride off into the sunset "job done" was despicable. Likewise David Cameron resigning.

BOTH sides told a LOT of lies. What happened to the instant recession, and emergency budget and tax rises as soon as we voted out?  That just proves the economy just gets on with it, usually in SPITE of what government does and rarely because of it.

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Very wise words indeed.

i would like to ask Tony Blair, on live TV why he renaged on his promise on the vote on the Lisbon treaty.

hes said a lot about Brexit ...... so I want an answer from him ....

Murdo   don't hold your breath for too long  ...you can die from it you know!!!

Evans Electric said:

Murdo   don't hold your breath for too long  ...you can die from it you know!!!

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I am not holding my breath .... you know when Tony Blair is lying ..... his lips are moving ...

revjames said:

My understanding is the CO2 issue is Europe wide and not limited to the UK?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/06/22/caused-uks-carbon-dioxide-shortage/

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Well you could

But the beer would be flat

Murdoch said:

I am not holding my breath .... you know when Tony Blair is lying ..... his lips are moving ...

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'economical with the truth' is nearer the mark, like most of the Brexit info before the vote.