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GaryMk

Newly Qualified - Driving myself mad🤬 Help!!!

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GaryMk

Hi, I am new to the forum.

I done one of those 4 week electrical courses last year, I asked the qustion whilst booking, do you need any experience as I have none at all? They told me you didn’t as it was for complete novices and beginners. So I take the course, qualified Part P, 17th Edition and level 3 Domestic Electrical testing. I was told I was now ready to go out there and BE a Domestic Electrician.....

 

Not so much, I have only had half a dozen jobs and was stuck on everyone of them, I didn’t know what I do when problems arose. Confidence shot!

 

Now I am in the position of, not confident doing work on my own, to old to do an apprenticeship, can’t find anyone to take me on to get hands on experience, not qualified enough to apply to work for a company that could give me on the job training?

 

Always wanted to become an electrician, everyone else on the course I attended had some to good experience in electrics so I was left behind on every task, again confidence shot!

 

Has anybody out there any suggestions on where I could go from here?

 

I am 51 years old and based in Milton Keynes

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Sharpend

So you’re 51, what have you done before? 

 

And at what point in your life experience did you ever believe that you could train to do a technical job in 4 weeks? Some people take longer to learn to stack shelves correctly. 

 

There’s a saying, perhaps you’ve not heard it, If it sounds too good to be true then it usually is. 

 

So where to go now is probably a question on your mind. 

Speak to the local college about a proper course, apparently colleges are open on Sunday now - so the trainees are telling me.

then I might suggest that you speak to your MP and explain how you’ve been ripped off, you might also want too speak to a solicitor about being missold the course. 

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roys

Guessing that the course was probably the best part of £2000, feel sorry for you being misled and of course filling the training providers pockets with your hard earned cash.

As I am sure you have guessed now that these courses were designed for sparks that were from a slightly different background i.e. Military, commercial or industrial and were just needing a gap filled to give them the domestic side of things.

As suggested college courses are the best, please remember that myself and most people on here have done a 4 year apprenticeship and a ton of further courses throughout our careers and so are surprised at how these training providers can claim to make a spark in 4 weeks.

For your own well being and to scratch that itch so to speak, get talking to people in pub, wholesalers, etc. To see if any of them wants a helper/labourer/mate and be prepared to work for peanuts. I had a lad that use to labour for me for beer money, after a while he got quite good, as you found out he would take a big step back whenever a problem occurred but that is when it gets interesting.

Sorry probably not what you were wanting to hear, hopefully someone in your area might be needing a hand and it will get you going.

 

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binky

I think you have just discovered the installation work is the hardest part to learn, and for that you need hands on work. Whilst trying to get work with an experienced electrican, try testing and fiddling with your own house (carefully). Lift floorborads, look in loft and just generally try to work out what's been done and how, or try a little project like rewiring your garage electrics - we will help as much as possible, as you have done the right thing on here in admiting you haven't a clue - I mean that in the nicest possible way :^O

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Evans Electric
4 hours ago, binky said:

- we will help as much as possible, as you have done the right thing on here in admiting you haven't a clue - I mean that in the nicest possible way :^O

I agree with that , the guy has been misled and cheated out of a fair sum of money .   

I admire you for having a go at 51 but wish you'd looked at it closer .   Modern apprenticeship  (if you can get one)    is 4 years plus the various courses .  My own  , back in the Bronze age was 6 years   , as we left school at 15  and  never went "on the tools"  until 21 .  

 

By the way , Part P  is'nt a qualification  ,  its  merely a reference to Part P of the Building  Regs  , which says  a domestic electrician must be proven to be competent.  

 

There have been many on here like yourself and I think the best advice , correct me if I'm wrong ,  is to go down the route of working as a Mate  or Trainee  with a firm or a one man band .    

I can assure you , being an electrician is a lifetime of learning  , it can't be done in 4 weeks  .   

A few days working with a couple of sparks will show you how far you have to go .  

 

What is your 17th ed. qualification by the way  ..I had to do a 10 week  night school stint to upgrade . 

 

And because of your honesty and realising  your problem  I trust no one here feels they need to slag you off ,  its the system that at fault  and the rip-off merchants allowed to continue .  

 

If you stay in the trade  then stay on here ,  tell us how you get on ,  theres no better place. 

Edited by Evans Electric

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Doc Hudson

Hello GarryMK welcome to the forum, there are no simple quick fix solutions to your situation, but it may help you to understand things a bit clearer if I just explain a bit to put Part-P into context.

 

Historically domestic electrical work has been a completely open and un regulated area of work. A builder, or kitchen fitter, or bathroom fitter, or white-van-handyman decorator, or a keen DIY neighbour could offer to do electrical work as a trade for pretty much anybody in their home with zero electrical qualifications under their belt. Then around 2005/6ish building regulations Part-P was introduced (electrical safety in dwellings), which stated that certain types of electrical work should have a building regulations compliance certificate as well as the relevant electrical certificate.  DIY'ers could apply to their council for them to inspect and test the electrical aspects of a project.  Or a competent electrician could self certify their work on behalf of the homeowner. Electricians had to be a member of one of the recognised trade bodies to be listed on the competent persons register.

 

To be enrolled onto these various trades bodies a lot of old school electricians with many years experience under their belts, had to bring some of their qualifications up to date. As a result training providers introduced short top-up courses to tap into this market of persons mostly needing regulations course updates, without all of the back-to-basics science, calculations or installation techniques type stuff. These types of courses tended to be known a Part-P courses. They did not teach you to be an electrician from scratch, as they assumed you were just needing topping up of you knowledge to current wiring regs and awareness of part-P building regs.

 

Now the reality is that domestic electrical work is theoretically regulated, but it is actually unpoliced and DIY work is still legally permitted.  99.99999% of the old school brigade who wanted to do any domestic work have already updated their qualifications as it is now 12+ years since part-P introduction. But we still have all these training companies with short courses to offer for sale, and they will sell them to anyone willing to part with their hard earned cash, irrespective of if it is the right course for an individual or not. It is very much in the same realms as the mortgage miss-selling prior to the big financial crash. Or PPI miss-selling, Or ticket tout companies selling fake concert tickets. Basically, (not everyone) but too many are just rip-off merchants.

 

I wish you well with your future decisions. But if you are still pursuing electrical work you will need a good grasp of Physics, Maths, Electrical principals and logical common sense if you are ever going to fault-find anything.

 

Doc H.

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GaryMk

Thanks for the advise, yes I do feel like I was ripped off, yes I do feel a plank! 

I cant give up on this yet, I only want to work on small domestic jobs, nothing outside this. I agree the only way to learn to be an electrician is through an apprenticeship. 

I shall continue to try to learn more and do jobs for friends and family, changing switches lights etc.

 

ill be in touch 🤞🤞🤞

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M107

You will have to update that 17th edition qual to the 18th edition.......

 

Stick with it.....As Deke said start with the small works, look at older installations to get your head round the how's & then ask here for the Why's. As has already been said you've been honest so you will get help here.

Just dont jump in to bigger jobs that you feel is outside your current skill level, again ask here first or if you are worried about how some here may take a question I & others I;m sure would answer if you PM'd a question.

 

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Sharpend

Gary, what books do you have? Bs7671, GN3, on-site guide? 

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GaryMk

Hi, I have IET Wiring Regs BS7671 2008, guidance note3 INDPECTION AND TESTING, electricians guide to building regs, on site guide and 7th Edition inspection testing and certification. I know they all tell me what I should do, but it didn’t give me any hands on thought provoking confidence.

 

thanks guys for the advice, it means a lot.  👍👍👍

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Sharpend

So do you understand how circuits work? 

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Mastbruch

IMHO I think the OP is on a wind up & wouldnt at all be surprised he is a qualified electrician making a point about these short courses. May be wrong Just my opinion. 

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GaryMk

I can assure you this is not a wind up, on paper, yes it says I am a qualified domestic electrician! It didn’t say how things are done and what to do with these qualifications, which is why I put the question out there to you guys.

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GaryMk
15 hours ago, Sharpend said:

So do you understand how circuits work? 

Honestly, some but not enough, these courses give you the answers to the questions to pass exams, they don’t tell you how or why you get to the answers. Whichever is where the massive void becomes the problem, I feel I need to know the why’s and how’s.

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kerching

Not sure if it has already been said but, a call to Trading Standards may be useful. After all you appear to have beeen missold a course and received a dubious qualification

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Mastbruch
2 hours ago, GaryMk said:

I can assure you this is not a wind up, on paper, yes it says I am a qualified domestic electrician! It didn’t say how things are done and what to do with these qualifications, which is why I put the question out there to you guys.

 

What CPS scheme have you signed up to Gary to allow you to carry out domestic work which will allow you to sign your work off? What city and guilds certificate do you have in testing you say level 3 which is either the 2394 or 2391 which some going for someone who had no experience in the field? Just curious. 

Edited by Mastbruch

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GaryMk

I haven’t signed up for any schemes as I don’t feel I have the knowledge or competence to pass ant assessments. At the “Training” you are given a choice of what exams you want to take, either C&G or eal, they lead you down the path that eal is the same but recognised by the trade as being more relevant and also quicker and easier with less study. So that’s what we all chose..... Personally I feel the so called qualifications I gained are dubious at best. 

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Murdoch

Do you have any experience in the building trade? How familiar are you with different types of home construction?

 

If the answers are none your learning curve will be very steep and hard.

 

Maybe try and get to work along side some local guys ........... but beware, you are asking them to help train you, then you will be competing with them .............. so maybe look slightly out of your immediate area ..............

 

The UK's attitude to training and developing people is awful IMHO .......... something needs to change

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Sharpend
3 hours ago, GaryMk said:

Honestly, some but not enough, these courses give you the answers to the questions to pass exams, they don’t tell you how or why you get to the answers. Whichever is where the massive void becomes the problem, I feel I need to know the why’s and how’s.

 

Ok so do you understand the testing of circuits? 

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GaryMk

I have some experience in the building game, over the years I have worked on many sites doing one thing or another. I just wish they had told us that 1- you need some electrical knowledge to do the course and 2- that the qualifications gained are just the basics to start you off. I could of then made a different decision.

 

I have an  eal level 2 in fundamental Inspection, Testing and Initial Verification Qualification. I did the theory and practical exam and passed but was lead all the way,as is if just to keep there pass rate up. The answe4 to your question is no, not really. ☹️

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Sharpend

Ok so seriously I’d you do not understand the principles of a circuit nor the purpose of testing then I’m afraid you are going to find this exceptionally tough. I would in your position definitely seek some legal assistance against the training provider under the Sale of goods act to at least try and get your money back. 

 

Do you have any of the promotional literature from the trading provider? 

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GaryMk

I still have all the paperwork including where it says “ training people with little or no experience to become domestic installers via certified accreditation’s such as City & Guilds and EAL” This is there Code of Practise?!

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Evans Electric
1 hour ago, GaryMk said:

I still have all the paperwork including where it says “ training people with little or no experience to become domestic installers via certified accreditation’s such as City & Guilds and EAL” This is there Code of Practise?!

I think this should be investigated  TBH  .       Whatever anyone tells you ,    you can't learn a trade at college .  You can learn  the basics  ,  you can learn the Regs ,  you could pass ALL the exams in the world  but I'd like to bet if the college lecturers  or a load of Oxford Dons with every degree in the universe turned up on a new building project ,  say a railway station , a new school ,  a medium sized factory  ....they would not have a Scooby Doo  in the practicalities .   

 

You have to be there , putting the time in , watching , learning , soaking it up ,  with other sparks  , other plumbers , other car mechanics ,  heating engineers , carpenters , bricklayers , drain layers .  

 

This Forum has many skilled , intelligent  tradesmen ,  but I'd bet if we all got together to lay some drains  on a new housing site ,say ,   we'd make right cock up of them .

 

And these four week courses are ripping off honest guys  who are willing to find work  , but have been misled .  

 

  Its mis-selling on a grand scale. 

  

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Mastbruch
40 minutes ago, Evans Electric said:

I think this should be investigated  TBH  .       Whatever anyone tells you ,    you can't learn a trade at college .  You can learn  the basics  ,  you can learn the Regs ,  you could pass ALL the exams in the world  but I'd like to bet if the college lecturers  or a load of Oxford Dons with every degree in the universe turned up on a new building project ,  say a railway station , a new school ,  a medium sized factory  ....they would not have a Scooby Doo  in the practicalities .   

 

You have to be there , putting the time in , watching , learning , soaking it up ,  with other sparks  , other plumbers , other car mechanics ,  heating engineers , carpenters , bricklayers , drain layers .  

 

This Forum has many skilled , intelligent  tradesmen ,  but I'd bet if we all got together to lay some drains  on a new housing site ,say ,   we'd make right cock up of them .

 

And these four week courses are ripping off honest guys  who are willing to find work  , but have been misled .  

 

  Its mis-selling on a grand scale. 

  

 

Going to have disagree with when you say college lecturers wouldnt have a clue if they turned up on site. Yes I am sure there will be some where they wont have a clue but There are 4 college tutors in my college and all 4 are electrican gold card holders who are in their 40's and 50's who work on site during the day and teach the evening course 2365 during the week once a week.

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GaryMk

I’ll tell you the ironic thing about all this, the guy who runs the company is a member of this site! 🤯🤯🤯

 

 

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