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Razar

NICEIC Initial assessment

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Razar

Hello guys,

 

I want to get registered  as a domestic installer and I have a few questions. First of all  which one do you think is better NICEIC or NAPIT? Second question is about the assessment, I know I have to show them some of my work, the problem is that I have talked with my boss about it, and he don't want let me do that, because once I will get registered as a domestic installer, he thinks he will have to pay me more, and he don't want that. At the moment he is the one who is certifying my work. I am thinking to do something simple at home, where I leave. I want to install some garden lights in the garden, just to make a new circuit, with a 16 A MCB, and a fused connection fitted outside on a roofed terrace, and in that FCU connect a 24VDC Power supply and from there go with SELV to the garden lights outside (everything waterproof of course) . Do you think this circuit will be enough for the assessment? And What do I need to do about certifying this circuit, my landlord leaves outside UK, I have spoke with him on the phone and he seems to agree with that, but I am not sure who need to notify the work to Building Control me or the landlord? I know I can get a registered third party electrician to certify my work, but I am not sure if at the assessment they need the work to be certified by a registered electrician, and tested by me, or just tested by me. Is the assessor going to contact the building control, about the work or not? 

 

Thank you in advance for your answers. 

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Doc Hudson

Have you actually looked at either Napit or Niceic websites to review their requirements?    https://www.napit.org.uk/join-napit/how-to-join-napit.aspx    http://www.niceic.com/join-us/part-p-domestic-installer-scheme

I think you may find you are lacking a key aspect in that you are not actually a business trading yourself, therefore you probably will not have any public liability cover, or a trading name or address with which to register.

The type of work you suggest sounds woefully inadequate in my opinion to make any formal assessment of anyone's abilities or competence.  If a trade body will accept members based on that level of work then you may as well call everyone who can plug a table lamp in an electrician. I would have expected a minimum of a full fuse box replacement, plus some new circuits and multiple jobs. I do hope entry requirements haven't dropped so low that a few garden lights can show competence sufficient to carry out a full rewire, or full installation on a new-build?

 

Doc H. 

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Murdoch

If your boss is a scheme member, why do you need to be?

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Razar
1 hour ago, Doc Hudson said:

Have you actually looked at either Napit or Niceic websites to review their requirements?    https://www.napit.org.uk/join-napit/how-to-join-napit.aspx    http://www.niceic.com/join-us/part-p-domestic-installer-scheme

I think you may find you are lacking a key aspect in that you are not actually a business trading yourself, therefore you probably will not have any public liability cover, or a trading name or address with which to register.

The type of work you suggest sounds woefully inadequate in my opinion to make any formal assessment of anyone's abilities or competence.  If a trade body will accept members based on that level of work then you may as well call everyone who can plug a table lamp in an electrician. I would have expected a minimum of a full fuse box replacement, plus some new circuits and multiple jobs. I do hope entry requirements haven't dropped so low that a few garden lights can show competence sufficient to carry out a full rewire, or full installation on a new-build?

 

Doc H. 

Thanks for replying Doc, I understand what you're saying, I know that the ciruit described is way to simple to prove real skill in industry, but like I said in the other post, I am working as an electrician, and I have enough experience wiring houses. I have called NICEIC customer service and they told me that, I need to present a job with at least one new circuit. I am planning to start working for myself, and that's why I want to get registered. Public liability cover, is not a problem I just need to star paying for it, I have an address ( I am not homeless :))) ).  

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Razar
51 minutes ago, Murdoch said:

If your boss is a scheme member, why do you need to be?

Because I want to start working for myself. Is not easy to work for a boss who is not happy when his emplyees are trying to improve their  skills. He is an *******. 

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Murdoch
8 minutes ago, Razar said:

Because I want to start working for myself. Is not easy to work for a boss who is not happy when his emplyees are trying to improve their  skills. He is an *******. 

 

 

If if you have the tools, tester, books , insurances etc and jobs of your own then there is nothing to stop you .... but beware you may unexpectedly get the boot ...

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Evans Electric

As said , there is no point if you intend to remain employed . 

Are you a qualified electrician   at least basically?  

Do you have the contacts to keep earning a living  if you leave this employment? 

Are you actually employed directly , on the books , by this firm or are you a subby?

 

Registering as a Domestic Installer is a scam that we all have to put up with.... we were all qualified electricians once  & did Industrial , commercial & domestic work . then all of a sudden we were NOT qualified for domestic work unless we paid someone   around £500 a year.   

 

So if you are determined to go with this , join Stroma  at half the cost of the others .    All you need  is to be able to sign off your jobs to Local Building Control  ,  don't get involved with anything else.   

 

You really need some work lined up first ,  it seems that you don't have anything to present  for assessment. 

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Razar
14 minutes ago, Evans Electric said:

As said , there is no point if you intend to remain employed . 

Are you a qualified electrician   at least basically?  

Do you have the contacts to keep earning a living  if you leave this employment? 

Are you actually employed directly , on the books , by this firm or are you a subby?

 

Registering as a Domestic Installer is a scam that we all have to put up with.... we were all qualified electricians once  & did Industrial , commercial & domestic work . then all of a sudden we were NOT qualified for domestic work unless we paid someone   around £500 a year.   

 

So if you are determined to go with this , join Stroma  at half the cost of the others .    All you need  is to be able to sign off your jobs to Local Building Control  ,  don't get involved with anything else.   

 

You really need some work lined up first ,  it seems that you don't have anything to present  for assessment. 

I don't want to remain at this company, here I am a subby, the compny is formed by my boss, me and another two subby's. About my qualifications, I have a few C&G qualifications, like Level 3 electrical installations, Level 3 Testing and Inspection ( initial and periodic), 17th edition, and I have booked C&G Part P course this month. So I belive from this point of view I am more than qualified to do domestic. Thanks for telling me about Stroma, sounds like a good idea. I will try to find something to do myself, so I can present at the assessment, is not easy, when you are stuck at work 6 days a week. That's why I was suggesting something at my home, but looks like, what I was thinking to do is not enough for assessment. 

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Doc Hudson

I think the bottom line is, if you really have the bottle and motivation to work for yourself, and you are confident you can market yourself to generate enough work then leave ASAP and start up on your own.  The hard bit is getting new work. Passing an assessment will be an easy walk in the park if you really are competent enough to generate new customers and keep existing customers happy while making a profit sufficient enough to live off. 75% of passing an assessment is paying the enrolment fee, 10% having the books, insurance & complaints log, 10% picking the right choice of biscuit to match the tea or coffee your assessor prefers, and the last 5% is having the right installation to visit. (give or take the odd 5% here or there).

 

Doc H. 

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Evans Electric

Generally they want to see something installed , with test results .    Do it at home if thats all you can offer .       This is about money   , whether its NICEIC  ELCSA   / NAPPITT / STROMA   etc      without us and our cheques  funding them  they are nothing  .

I think you have enough qualifications , I'm not  up to date with that ,     not sure what  the C&Gs Part P is all about to be honest .... Part P is  merely a section of the Building Regs  that refers to Domestic  electrics  being installed by a competent person ........... if  you are registered with  one of the above  then you are a competent person .   

 

You're clearly not happy there ,  move on , go for it , life is short , only one chance  etc   .  The sun will shine upon the righteous,  there will be bluebirds over the White Cliffs of Dover  , just you wait and see  ... all will be well .     Goodnight  & good luck .

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Razar

Ok. Thanks very much guys for all your advices. I think I will go with that garden lights circuit at my home in the end, I have to try, otherwise I will just waste my time. But that circuit needs to be tested by a registered electrician before the assessment, or just by me? I will do it, test it and it will definetly be safe to be powered up. Is the assessor going to ask for the certificate from a registered electrician or not? 

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Sidney

No point presenting work for a scheme assessment that's been signed off by someone else, sort of defeats the object of it all. Certify yourself and once you've passed the assessment then notify LABC through your own notification system.

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SPECIAL LOCATION

:popcorn

Decide on which scheme you intend joining.....

 

Then ask them what they will require....

I would assume they will send out a some info explaining what you will need to have available for their assessment..?

 

All I know is that for every assessment I have had, I have had to have access to two installations...

 

Which generally have been, a replacement fuse box, full rewire, or new outbuilding with associated sub-main from main supply....

 

They have needed to see my certificates  + meter with associated serial numbers & method of verifying accuracy (e.g. calibration / personal test records).

Complaints log, Health & safety policy,  + all the current regs, guidance notes, site guide, Electricity at work guidance etc..

Plus the copy of my current PL insurance.

 

If someone can be considered competent by just a few garden lights that have been tested and certified by someone else it sort of takes the "Part Peeee" out of others who are doing the full job.

 

:C

 

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binky

Board change at home is always a good piece of work for a 1st assessment.

 

Try to avoid burning bridges with current boss - he may be useful to tap for work now and again, your biggest problem going out on your own is getting reliable customer base, and that takes a long time, unless you go agency of get on a building site.

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kerching

I may well be wrong ( see current wife for details) but I seem to recall that NICEIC decided that work in your own home was not admissible as evidence 

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Evans Electric

Yes I think they did  .   I had my own service move & board change  last year  which I offered  but it was rebuffed . 

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Sharpend

Having looked at the two links in Docs post, I only see one reference to qualifications and even then it said refer to another page which wasn’t there? This sends out a clear message that the ‘qualifications’ or being a ‘qualified’ electrician is not that important and that it is in fact a scam. 

 

A sorry state of affairs that needs at needs to be legally challenged imo. 

 

The OP has said that he has lvl3 in Electrical installation but has not mentioned which one or whether he has the AM2 etc to classify him as ‘qualified’ and it would seem that the scams aren’t that interested either, am I glad I don’t need to work in this environment, I see enough poor work without putting myself amongst the easy entry domestic brigade. 

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