Sockets with no RCD protection

Talk Electrician Forum

Help Support Talk Electrician Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Sidney

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 24, 2018
Messages
456
Reaction score
87
Location
St Neots
One of our teams have recently installed some service sockets, 13 amp one gang, in a BT exchange however there's no RCD protection for the outlets. I was not aware of this installation until the cert came into my possession.

These sockets are in the bottom of a 600mm telecoms rack and are for engineers to plug in laptops, drill chargers etc

Our customer, who are a third party to BT, have stated the following:

The RCD sockets are not required to be RCD protected, as they are labelled for maintenance purposes only and not required for untrained staff. All contractors have their own RCD protected equipment who plug into them.

These sockets will be accessible by non-instructed persons to plug in all manner of things. I have quoted 411.3.3 for the yellow book that they need a documented risk assessment to omit RCD protection as this socket will not be used for a specific piece of equipment.

Circuit is singles in containment so no requirement for RCD protection there, only for the end user at the socket. My work around for this is to install 30mA RCD socket-outlets but this has started a bit of an argument which I would like to avoid.

The customer is responsible for the design of the installation, we are only there for construction and I&T.

I have insisted that the installation team go back and either disconnect them or install 30mA RCD socket-outlets.

Please tell me I'm not going mad???

 
I see two statements you need to address.

1)   Can you present a documented risk assessment showing why  RCD  protection is  not necessary.

2)   Show that the socket is labelled  as being for a specific piece of equipment . 

If these things are travelling about ,  other stuff being plugged in etc   I would suggest they should have RCD protection  to comply. 

If the customer has designed it then get them to sign them off as non RCD   but get paperwork to cover your ass.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
One of our teams have recently installed some service sockets, 13 amp one gang, in a BT exchange however there's no RCD protection for the outlets. I was not aware of this installation until the cert came into my possession.

These sockets are in the bottom of a 600mm telecoms rack and are for engineers to plug in laptops, drill chargers etc

Our customer, who are a third party to BT, have stated the following:

The RCD sockets are not required to be RCD protected, as they are labelled for maintenance purposes only and not required for untrained staff. All contractors have their own RCD protected equipment who plug into them.

These sockets will be accessible by non-instructed persons to plug in all manner of things. I have quoted 411.3.3 for the yellow book that they need a documented risk assessment to omit RCD protection as this socket will not be used for a specific piece of equipment.

Circuit is singles in containment so no requirement for RCD protection there, only for the end user at the socket. My work around for this is to install 30mA RCD socket-outlets but this has started a bit of an argument which I would like to avoid.

The customer is responsible for the design of the installation, we are only there for construction and I&T.

I have insisted that the installation team go back and either disconnect them or install 30mA RCD socket-outlets.

Please tell me I'm not going mad???
Wouldn't it be better just to put a couple RCD plug socket fronts on for engineer use and any by equipment plugged into standard plug sockets 

 
How ridiculous ............ the spark is supposed to sign it off as compliant but in truth he is a pawn in the game 

State on the cert who designed the installation and move on

Next. 

 
These sockets are in the bottom of a 600mm telecoms rack and are for engineers to plug in laptops, drill chargers etc

Our customer, who are a third party to BT, have stated the following:

The RCD sockets are not required to be RCD protected, as they are labelled for maintenance purposes only and not required for untrained staff. All contractors have their own RCD protected equipment who plug into them.


This is bull and would be pulled apart in n a court. Why? 

So your honour, the client states that the sockets are not to be RCD’d however also states that contractors will provide their own Rcd protected equipment. 

So if we are to take these two statements as truth then it is clear there is a requirement for the sockets to provide RCD protection, and as a competent electrical contractor my client, Sidney, has installed the rcd protection into the circuit in accordence with BS7671:2018.

Case closed ???

 
Or it could have gone :--   

Although the customer has designed  the sockets to have NO RCD protection , I put it to you that the contractor should install to BS 7671  .  The fact that he hasn't  makes him  negligent  in his duty of care  M'lud  and I recommend that as he is just a common workman  he should carry the full blame  of this faulty installation  and  that he be taken from this court and stoned in the public square . 

 
It gets better, names omitted etc:

You cannot disconnect the circuit without a PEW. This is a customer site.

I can assure you this circuit complies with BS7671. I had 3 meetings with BT’s *****  *********, who is a contributor to the IET for BS7671 to ensure its wording within the regs to ensure it complies. This design went through 2 levels of BT AC policy teams authorization also.

I just haven’t got time to dig out the information as I am really snowed under at the moment. Please ask you electrical supervisor to call me if he wants further clarification.

I best get my diplomatic head on tomorrow as I'm not signing these off and I have instructed the project team to go back and disconnect them... I'll also call my CPS helpline just to tick  box.

Cheers all for the replies so far.

 
OK, I may be a little out of date, but I would view this as a commercial installation, where RCD protection is not mandatory, although I would want an RCD socket on the socket nearest  the door as someone is likely to be doing some work outdoors at some point. 

 
For me 411.3.3 is pretty clear:

411.3.3 Additional Protection

In a.c. systems, additional protection by means of an RCD in accordance with Regulation 415.1 shall be provided for.

(i)                  Socket-outlets with a rated current not exceeding 20 A, and

(ii)                Mobile equipment with a current rating not exceeding 32 for use outdoors.

And exception to (i) is permitted:

(a)    Where, other than for an installation in a dwelling, a documented risk assessment determines that the RCD protection is not necessary, or

(b)    For a specific labelled or otherwise suitably identified socket-outlet provided for connection of a particular item of equipment.

 
Had a chat with the NIC tech helpline this morning and they are in agreement with me, there needs to be either RCD protection or a risk assessment done.

 
so it's up to the designer to provide a risk assessment. 

Has set me thinking about what the criteria for needing an RCD would be, now under older regs, that was always the possibility of a socket being used for portable appliances outdoors. Would that still be true under 17th / 18th edition?

 
Binky , it looks like a blanket coverage now  .   

First  it was for RCD on outside sockets  & wet areas (Was it?)  

Then they went for cables buried in walls .

Now its ALL  sockets  unless someone can assess the installation .   

Personally I've avoided RCDs   like the various  printers where their design studios are all computers  , say 10 - 12  Macs  ...busy busy ...and then the RCD throws a wobbly &  trips  in the middle of a run .    No thanks .  

 
Binky , it looks like a blanket coverage now  .   

First  it was for RCD on outside sockets  & wet areas (Was it?)  

Then they went for cables buried in walls .

Now its ALL  sockets  unless someone can assess the installation .   

Personally I've avoided RCDs   like the various  printers where their design studios are all computers  , say 10 - 12  Macs  ...busy busy ...and then the RCD throws a wobbly &  trips  in the middle of a run .    No thanks


Some designers use an RCD for each desk or bank of desks to stop someone plugging a cheap Chinese phone charger and tango'd the whole place up.

I've used elektrak modular stuff which has an inline RCD attached to the desk.

Also have a UPS incase things really go tits up!

https://www.legrand.co.uk/products/power-distribution/electrak/underfloor-to-workstation/

 

Latest posts

Top