Trying to find suitable LED dimmer switches

Hi

I am using Philips LED Classic 5.5 W GU10 Glass Dimmable Spot Lights everywhere:
http://amzn.eu/d/fbatvkf
 

One room has three of these bulbs totalling 16.5W on one light fitting like this:
 



Here is a picture inside the current switch I am replacing for this:



Another room has 6 bulbs totalling 33W, on two light fittings (3 LED bulbs each, same fitting as above picture) here is a picture inside the current switch I am replacing for this:



Will there be any issues if I use this Konesky Smart Dimmer Switch to replace these switches? Will the dim all the way down? Will the Watts of the bulbs will be too small for the dimmer to handle? (I have experienced this before with other dimmer switches).
http://amzn.eu/d/h7Z4waN
 

My current box is 8cm (length) x 8cm (width) x 4cm (depth). Is this deep enough? I do have a neutral wire.

Note the main switch for the house states it is 5 amp lighting so I assume this is OK (I'm in the UK).

Does anybody know of any other good solutions that aren't too expensive? WIFI control would be preferable but not essential. Not too keen on voice commands because of privacy but I'll entertain them (the Konesky Smart dimmer has voice commands unfortunately).

My main worry is that the dimmer won't go down far enough anyway - apprecate people's help.

Many thanks indeed - I know this is a long post.

I can't see a neutral wire in either of those photos? Just a permanent live, switched live and earth connection.

Doc H.

Doc Hudson said:

I can't see a neutral wire in either of those photos? Just a permanent live, switched live and earth connection.

Doc H.

Click to expand...

I thought black was neutral? (This is a UK house built in 1984).

https://p3connectors.com/2018/04/30/electrical-wiring-colours-standards/

Thanks...

No not in this case. The black should really have had an additional red sleeve over the black to indicate that it is a switched live, this had probably been removed/lost during the  change from normal switch to a dimmer - not uncommon. 

So you only have as Doc says a permanent live and switched live.  

Ok so I have in the photos three wires:

Earth = Green and yellow.
Positive = Red
Black = Switched Live
 

According to my link:

"In 1999 it became apparent that a new European standard for wiring and cable colours meant that the UK would have to change fixed wire insulator colours. As a result, old UK wiring colours were required to change the red live wire and a black neutral wire."
 

From read this the house is 1984 - so would not neutral will be black?

Why would you say black is switched live here?

** BTW I have no doubt you are right I am just trying to understand this for myself! Appreciated! **

So let me put it simply like this. 

If you were to look at the terminals under the light fitting you would find that the light has a neutral there. As there was no need for a neutral at the switch then you have a live feed to the switch then the return is the switched live as it only becomes live once the switch is operated. Therefore rather than carry a twin red cable - both cores red- the electrician has used the red and black cable for the switch drop, in this instance the black should have been sleeved with a red indicator to show it’s a live as opposed to a neutral. This as I said has probably been lost over the change from normal switch to dimmer. 

Whilst your link may be true it doesn’t mean it is the case in all examples, hence why we spent a lot of time and money investing in our skill so that we know these things. 

As I stated in the last post, I have no doubt you are right.... 

I assume there would have been an additional cable otherwise.

I guess I will need to get something  a lot more boring (no WIFI) like this then?

http://amzn.eu/d/3np50Vm

Thanks!

ElectricAlex said:

I thought black was neutral? (This is a UK house built in 1984).

https://p3connectors.com/2018/04/30/electrical-wiring-colours-standards/

Thanks...

Click to expand...

Ignoring the colours for a minute and consider the more important concept of what you want to connect up. A switch is basically just a link between two contacts to control when the power input at one contact is output at the other contact. When the switch is 'ON' there is a direct connection between the two contacts. If you put a direct contact between a live and neutral you will simply blow the fuse. The output contact of the switch goes to the light. it is the other side of the light where the neutral is connected to. If you do not understand this concept you really should be seeking profession help. Unfortunately your post illustrates one of the modern day problems of people with limited information using the internet to get half an answer, (or sometimes completely wrong answer) to a question they have. Thankfully you have come and asked here for further information. But time and again we see people trying to get the wrong product to work, after they have installed it incorrectly in a situation it was not designed for. Google searching can produce much helpful advice but also there is the mixed bag of half-truths, and not knowing the right question to ask in the first place. 

Doc H.    

ElectricAlex said:

Hi

I am using Philips LED Classic 5.5 W GU10 Glass Dimmable Spot Lights everywhere:
http://amzn.eu/d/fbatvkf

Click to expand...

Re your original question:  That has already been comprehensively covered,  and I agree with previous comments.....

But on a side note:-

Those Amazon, Philips.  GU10 LEDs look a bit poor to me...  (or maybe just bad description on the packaging)..

5.5 watts and only 350lumens at 36degree beam angle! ?  

350lumen and claiming to be approx. 50watt equivalent???

As a rule of thumb I always go on the divide or multiple by 10 factor..

e.g. 

traditional 100w lamp approx. 1000lumen  +/- 50lumen if clear or pearl (frosted) glass.

traditional 60w lamp approx. 600lumen  +/- 50lumen if clear or pearl (frosted) glass.

traditional 40w lamp approx. 400lumen  +/- 50lumen if clear or pearl (frosted) glass.

SO:-

350lumen LED is more like approx. equivalent to 30 or 40watt traditional lamp..

certainly wouldn't call it 50watt, as that would be looking more toward 500+ lumens in my opinion...

e.g. 

something more like these beasties..

https://www.toolstation.com/shop/Lighting/d220/LED+GU10+Lamps/sd2681/Enlite+ICE+LED+5W+GU10+Dimmable+Lamp/p65928

5watts, 500lumens...  More light out, less power consumed..

plus the Amazon Philips lights are a narrower beam angle...

:C      Guinness

Thanks for the tips @SPECIAL LOCATION. I already have the LEDs - they are fine right now, but that is definately interesting for next time!

So I'm probably going to order this tomorrow, apparently this just needs Live and Load rather than neutral:
http://amzn.eu/d/758F2Qx

Let me know if I'm wrong!

Appreciated..

one thing I will add to the above comments is that I've never seen an LED dimmer that works smoothly and down to low light levels unless it involved a DALI dimming system (commercial and expensive lighting products). Dimming LED is just unsatisfactory in 9 out 10 cases that I've seen. I will be very interested to know if that dimmer works in a satisfactory way?

Well I bit the bullet and ordered:
http://amzn.eu/d/758F2Qx

Fingers crossed. Will supply feedback.

I have read on the Varilight website that most LED dimmers need to be programmed, could this solve your issue? I could be totally wrong.  :innocent

Andy Guinness

Zeespark said:

I have read on the Varilight website that most LED dimmers need to be programmed, could this solve your issue? I could be totally wrong.  :innocent

Andy Guinness

Click to expand...

Yip Scolmore Click now do programmable led dimmers, keep meaning to get a couple to have a play.

binky said:

one thing I will add to the above comments is that I've never seen an LED dimmer that works smoothly and down to low light levels unless it involved a DALI dimming system (commercial and expensive lighting products). Dimming LED is just unsatisfactory in 9 out 10 cases that I've seen. I will be very interested to know if that dimmer works in a satisfactory way?

Click to expand...

I would tend to agree that economical dimmers for the domestic market are still a work in progress with compatibility between manufactures of the lamps and dimmers. It can be very hit and miss as to what is / isn't a good working match.

Doc H. 

Ok so I am using this dimmer switch with the Philips bulbs as stated in the original post:

http://amzn.eu/d/758F2Qx

I've installed it in three rooms (3 dimmer switches total). It was a straightforward A/B swap with the old switch. Back box did not need changing.

Installation was easy. Works great, could not be happier. Thanks for everybodies help.