Automated Gates - Geometry & Opening angles.

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GeddyMortgage

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Recently had some  'NICE' automated gates installed, using the Toona 3 system. Really happy with the install, very tidy,  generally happy with the work. Though one niggle i've got is that my drive is at a bit of an odd angle. Which means, to get through the gates easily, both leaves have to open as wide as possible.

During installation, the installer was able to make one of the gate leaves go wider during calibration than what it can in operation. I can't remember his exact explanation for that, but i'm not technical, so accepted it. Since then though, we've found it is a little bit awkward getting through the gates for some of my family. So i've tried to do a little research toward whether there's an easy way to get these gates opening "more"...i've been looking at geometry, and i'm little confused.

I've been looking at this guide https://www.easygates.co.uk/to4024-geom.asp  and comparing the measurements to my gate, mine are are (A)155mm and (B)155mm

I guess my question to you all, is, are any of you of good understanding of Geometry. In the guide above, is it basically saying the measurements within the dark green zones would allow the gates to open further...?

Thanks

Parma
 

 
above ground operators usually only go to 100-110 degrees max. to alter it you often need to remove brackets and reweld ithem in a  different position. you should have used an underground operator which can go to 180 degrees

can we have some finished pics of the gate. just curcious to see if they installed it correctly & safely or dangerously...

 
Certainly - reading Nice's website, they say 120 degrees max. I'm not sure what they're opening too now. But I dont think it's 120. More like 100 (just from eyeballing)

pics to follow.

 
Pics below, managed to since get the gates opening all the way, Nice Technical support were very helpful!








 
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cant see ay safety on the closing edge of the gate nor any for the gap <500mm behind the left gate (from inside). i also cant see any photocell. safety may also be required on both pillars too depending on gap size

personally, id also have something in the middle for the gates to hit and keep tight up against - as is you will have some movement between them and they wont always stop in the exact same place (will vary by a bit, maybe 20-60mm)

about the only good thing is the gate hinge design, being pivoted where it means no reducing gap between agte leaf and the pillar

imo, that gate is dangerous and doesnt comply with regulations. do you have any paperwork that shows the force testing is adequate to not need safety? any risk assessment? any CE mark?

 
cheers, really happy with it. Loving the fact I can call the intercom from my phone and have them open....such a nice touch.

Safety edges coming at a later date, as well as a mag lock and a central stop.

Photocells are mounted on the other sides of the iron gates.

 
cheers, really happy with it. Loving the fact I can call the intercom from my phone and have them open....such a nice touch.

Safety edges coming at a later date, as well as a mag lock and a central stop.

Photocells are mounted on the other sides of the iron gates.


i hope its not running without the safety. people / children have been killed because of this

and a bit grease would be useful too. its also hard to say form the photos, but the brackets for the operator on the gate post appear to be a little high (maybe 5-10mm)

dont know what your saying 'cheers, really happy with it' for. i wouldnt be. but mayb thats because i do the job properly?

 
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The difference here Andy is you’re looking with your professional spectacles on where as our dear friend is looking with his consumers spectacles on and it does what he wants it to do. Safety will only come into it when some poor blighter gets crushed.

What I find odd is the fact that this is the second attempt and the second installer had plenty of time to obtain the correct material to satisfy a professional install and is clearly aware the safety features are  needed hence why it’s coming soon yet has failed to do so, so how would they answer the crush question should it fail prior to parts arriving and fitting thereof. How do they sign the appropriate install cert for warranty?  

 
Respectfully, the first thing I usually notice when  I won't be needing a tradesman's services, is when they almost inevitably start slagging off some of the work done previous. Its like the "professional" equivalent of a load of women bitching about someones dress sense....  :)

back on point, I was told it'd be a 2 day gap between them being operational and the work being completed, that work is due to finish tomorrow.. and i'm more than fine with that. Are you saying I shouldn't be?
 

My opinion on the matter, is "if someone is stupid enough to put their <insert body part> between my gates as they're closing at an extremely slow speed in the two day window aforementioned. I'd argue it's unfortunate, but apropos natural selection taking its course. That'd mean they're stood between the gates and my car, with exhaust fumes hitting them in the face while they're stood stationary in a very odd place to exist. Shall I buy an electric car too, just to be on the safe side? 

FYI - I was saying cheers for your opinion, I wouldn't have wrote on here otherwise. It's welcome, especially if you think there's an issue.

 
you might think im slagging off someone else job. yes, i am, but only because its dangerous and they are far from professional. if they havent got the safety on yet for whatever reason then the gate should be left unpowered and in manual mode until it is complete. it should never have been powered up (except for testing & setting up under strict control, and then switched off again) until it is complete & safe. the gate is covered by machinery regulations, and so far id say the installers are in breach of a few laws. HSE would probably be interested in it too...

youll also notice that along with the issues that are wrong, i did point out the good what i do like about it (which isnt much)

as for if someone is stupid enough,  i suppose it was the kids fault for being around the gates that killed them? same thing as yours - installed without adequate safety

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/7871722/Second-girl-killed-by-automatic-gate-in-a-week.html

 
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The difference here Andy is you’re looking with your professional spectacles on where as our dear friend is looking with his consumers spectacles on and it does what he wants it to do. Safety will only come into it when some poor blighter gets crushed.

What I find odd is the fact that this is the second attempt and the second installer had plenty of time to obtain the correct material to satisfy a professional install and is clearly aware the safety features are  needed hence why it’s coming soon yet has failed to do so, so how would they answer the crush question should it fail prior to parts arriving and fitting thereof. How do they sign the appropriate install cert for warranty?  


probably something like that. see it all too often, people only care that it 'works', not that its safe. they dont care about anything else

 
It is being used in manual mode until the safety edges are installed properly. The manual release's are being lifted each morning and being used manually until they return to finish the job. The installer insisted on that, though I didn't necessarily agree. His call, not mine.

I think you've jumped the gun a little bit, shown a little bit too much initiative to deem it unsafe before doing a little bit of fact finding. At no point did I suggest the work was complete on these. Just that we'd had issues with the calibration phase, that's actually the only point I made this thread for :p

That is an extremely sad story, the same in principle, but i'd imagine those sliding gates are muuuuuch more powerful than the 24v electromechanical arms i've got? I was obviously being overly facetious in the above. RIP.

 
Anyway, back on subject, I wanted to use this thread to help anyone who installs the Nice toona swing gate, and needs the gates to open to their maximum opening angle.

Below is the picture I took (apologies it's a little bit distant, but hopefully the resolution is high enough) from when the arms where set to open in "Automatic Mode" where it opens to the MAX during calibration, then backs it off by 20degrees or so for normal operation, this was not a disaster, but I wanted them to open further due to the angle of my drive.


Yn5r8Jw.jpg.cd12893e0f5277578def3f6f786e483c.jpg



I'll take another picture to compare and update this thread with once the installation is complete (I do have them opening the full 120degrees now!)

 
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It is being used in manual mode until the safety edges are installed properly. The manual release's are being lifted each morning and being used manually until they return to finish the job. The installer insisted on that, though I didn't necessarily agree. His call, not mine.

I think you've jumped the gun a little bit, shown a little bit too much initiative to deem it unsafe before doing a little bit of fact finding. At no point did I suggest the work was complete on these. Just that we'd had issues with the calibration phase, that's actually the only point I made this thread for :p

That is an extremely sad story, the same in principle, but i'd imagine those sliding gates are muuuuuch more powerful than the 24v electromechanical arms i've got? I was obviously being overly facetious in the above. RIP.


your post implied that they were finished. you also said that they were operational but would be 2 days before being fnished...

sliding gate do work differently to swing and have different danger points, but youd be surprised just how powerful they can be if not set corretly & without safety on them. there is more than enough force there to crush / break bones

as for not opening fully, thats usually incorrectly setup. if it can physically move further in manual, then its usually the timers set wrong so it times out short, or possibly encoder limits been set wrong (if it has them)

 
My mate did this...and he's a CHIPPY!

View attachment 9792


that doesnt look compliant either.

as there are gaps in the gate then safety edges are required on the posts and there are none. also looks like it crosses over another gate to the left. id then expect a potential crush point between opening edge of gate & pilla opposite side of small gate

cover also looks custom built?

 
Respectfully, the first thing I usually notice when  I won't be needing a tradesman's services, is when they almost inevitably start slagging off some of the work done previous. Its like the "professional" equivalent of a load of women bitching about someones dress sense....  :)

back on point, I was told it'd be a 2 day gap between them being operational and the work being completed, that work is due to finish tomorrow.. and i'm more than fine with that. Are you saying I shouldn't be?
 

My opinion on the matter, is "if someone is stupid enough to put their <insert body part> between my gates as they're closing at an extremely slow speed in the two day window aforementioned. I'd argue it's unfortunate, but apropos natural selection taking its course. That'd mean they're stood between the gates and my car, with exhaust fumes hitting them in the face while they're stood stationary in a very odd place to exist. Shall I buy an electric car too, just to be on the safe side? 

FYI - I was saying cheers for your opinion, I wouldn't have wrote on here otherwise. It's welcome, especially if you think there's an issue.


Respectfully a tradesman knows when he doesn’t want to do work for a customer when he knows he’s only getting half the story. 

This hadn’t been about slagging off somebody else’s  work merely pointing out to you the requirement of the safety issues. Had you of given a complete story when you returned to this thread then perhaps there’d have been no need for any comments. ??

 
But I never asked you to do any work. You asked me to show some pictures. I did. But again, this thread was to get info on the technical side of gate opening operations, not for the work to be judged yet.

thanks for all your inputs though, I genuinely am glad you have a keener eye than me for this stuff. :)

 
But I never asked you to do any work. You asked me to show some pictures. I did. But again, this thread was to get info on the technical side of gate opening operations, not for the work to be judged yet.

thanks for all your inputs though, I genuinely am glad you have a keener eye than me for this stuff. :)


i see far too many gates that are installed badly by those who think they know what they are doing but dont, leaving them in a dangerous condition. safety equipment doesnt come with the kits as they are site specific and whats required varys a lot. but because its not 'in the kit' many people blindly assume that nothing else is required. its also something i work on regularly so can usually spot issues easily

 

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