Meeting regs

Talk Electrician Forum

Help Support Talk Electrician Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Empin

Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2019
Messages
13
Reaction score
0
Hi all

Some more questions of you gurus to get opinions as well you know the regs are sometimes open to different views.

6242B 4mm TE (Ref A  33Amp) Is this OK for a lollipop handle on a ring with a 32A breaker?

Wago box and wago 773 173 connectors OK for 32A as the connector for this lollipop?

Is the wago box/wago connector accepted by all as MF?

They all seem OK but want to check first

Thanks.

 
Hi all

Some more questions of you gurus to get opinions as well you know the regs are sometimes open to different views.

6242B 4mm TE (Ref A  33Amp) Is this OK for a lollipop handle on a ring with a 32A breaker?

Wago box and wago 773 173 connectors OK for 32A as the connector for this lollipop?

Is the wago box/wago connector accepted by all as MF?

They all seem OK but want to check first

Thanks.
Did you know that you can actually run an immersion heater on a piece of 1.5 t&e? I only mention this because if you look at the current carrying capacity of that particular cable, it's suitable. What it doesn't tell you is over what length, you appear to be getting information from somewhere, but are not getting it all, and consequentially I fear your project will end in tears!

Sorry to sound so brutal but that's how it is, when we size a cable we work out a number of factors, not just the table that gives the maximum current carrying capacity to arrive at the correct cable, quite often to the unskilled bloke it looks like we've massively oversized it, we haven't, it may be down to length of run, or thermal effects, or any nmber of variables.

A mate of mine got called to a job, the guy wanted a single socket and a light in his garage and had done it himself, it looked ok, everything wired as it should, however when he tried to run a small cement mixer it wouldn't have it. he couldn't understand why, he'd used 2.5swa which he'd read was good for 27amps, not at the 110 meter length of run that he had it wasn't.

 
Hi all

Some more questions of you gurus to get opinions as well you know the regs are sometimes open to different views.

6242B 4mm TE (Ref A  33Amp) Is this OK for a lollipop handle on a ring with a 32A breaker?

Wago box and wago 773 173 connectors OK for 32A as the connector for this lollipop?

Is the wago box/wago connector accepted by all as MF?

They all seem OK but want to check first

Thanks.


Maybe.....

Maybe Not....

Not enough circuit info IMHO....

Or to put it another way...

if I asked you...

Is the money in my wallet enough for shopping at the weekend??

You are going to need to know.. How much is in the wallet..

AND..  what do we need to buy???

How long is the circuit...

What loads is it supplying..  etc..

If you think it all seems ok...

perhaps you can divulge you FULL circuit calculations..

So we can have half a chance of offering an opinion..

I am almost 99.999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% sure...

that back in the days of doing my G&G's and cable calculations..

There was a tad more information given to allow a circuit to be designed...   :C

Which particular regs were you considering were open to interpretation with regard to your question??

:mellow:

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Maybe.....

Maybe Not....

Not enough circuit info IMHO....

Or to put it another way...

if I asked you...

Is the money in my wallet enough for shopping at the weekend??

You are going to need to know.. How much is in the wallet..

AND..  what do we need to buy???

How long is the circuit...

What loads is it supplying..  etc..

If you think it all seems ok...

perhaps you can divulge you FULL circuit calculations..

So we can have half a chance of offering an opinion..

I am almost 99.999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% sure...

that back in the days of doing my G&G's and cable calculations..

There was a tad more information given to allow a circuit to be designed...   :C

Which particular regs were you considering were open to interpretation with regard to your question??

:mellow:
OK sorry for the lack of clarity. I have say a ring 2.5TE which is pretty standard so lets say it complies with 17thE.

I propose to join the ring in a Wago box using the 32a rated connections this is to be attached to the party wall between the house and garage where the CU is. The ring is joined to a short length (2m) of the 4mm 6242B cable through a plywood partition no insulatin into the garage and into the CU no bunching all independant.

The final run is a bit torturous and a single cable will be easier to run. I calculated it on the assumption the ring is sound and there will be a 32a mcb. The wago and the cable seemed good for that and the voltage drop would be negligable over the distance.

I havent calculated for the ring as that seems to be best practice in most cases It would appear that i have missed something can you explain please.


 
OK sorry for the lack of clarity. I have say a ring 2.5TE which is pretty standard so lets say it complies with 17thE.

I propose to join the ring in a Wago box using the 32a rated connections this is to be attached to the party wall between the house and garage where the CU is. The ring is joined to a short length (2m) of the 4mm 6242B cable through a plywood partition no insulatin into the garage and into the CU no bunching all independant.

The final run is a bit torturous and a single cable will be easier to run. I calculated it on the assumption the ring is sound and there will be a 32a mcb. The wago and the cable seemed good for that and the voltage drop would be negligable over the distance.

I havent calculated for the ring as that seems to be best practice in most cases It would appear that i have missed something can you explain please.


Well......

As I said before.....

How long is the circuit...   What loads is it supplying..  etc..

So it is clear You have NOT proved anything is ok as you have NO circuit calculations..

And from practical real world real circuit situations....

Until a circuit has been PROVEN..  you must always assume is not electrically safe.   any other guesswork method is crazy!

You appear to be working on the commonly adopted builder/kitchen fitter/bathroom fitter/conservatory fitter method of electrical installation which works something like..

Sockets = 2.5mm T&E = Ring = there fore it must be good!!!

So the only answer can be...  It maybe ok..  

OR..  it may not..  ?

If I had applied your methods of circuit design back in the days of doing my G&G's and cable calculations..

I would have been shown the door..

Assuming any bit of cable is good for any application is a bit like saying..

Oh that second hand car has got four wheels..  (which is pretty standard)..  So it MUST be a good safe motor to buy....

We can assume all of the other safety critical aspects of the car are good without testing or checking anything.

:shakehead

:coat

 
Bit of a sweeping statement to assume a ring complies ...... and it’s the 18th edition now


The CU was fitted last year so I thought it could be either?

Well......

As I said before.....

How long is the circuit...   What loads is it supplying..  etc..

So it is clear You have NOT proved anything is ok as you have NO circuit calculations..

And from practical real world real circuit situations....

Until a circuit has been PROVEN..  you must always assume is not electrically safe.   any other guesswork method is crazy!

You appear to be working on the commonly adopted builder/kitchen fitter/bathroom fitter/conservatory fitter method of electrical installation which works something like..

Sockets = 2.5mm T&E = Ring = there fore it must be good!!!

So the only answer can be...  It maybe ok..  

OR..  it may not..  ?

If I had applied your methods of circuit design back in the days of doing my G&G's and cable calculations..

I would have been shown the door..

Assuming any bit of cable is good for any application is a bit like saying..

Oh that second hand car has got four wheels..  (which is pretty standard)..  So it MUST be a good safe motor to buy....

We can assume all of the other safety critical aspects of the car are good without testing or checking anything.

:shakehead

:coat




Yes thats true but it is a fairly simple ring of 24m of cable and half a dozen double sockets in a kitchen. I have split the kitchen into two circuits as one would be horribly lop sided. Now I know three single sockets could overload the circuit thats why i thought the number of sockets, within reason, was not relevant. The cable will be in a 38mm air space  plaster board/ insulation. There should be no correction needed for temperature or bunching its under 100sqm (arbitary)  but the unknown is load and spacing of the load which is rather critical, load of course can be set by the MCB but what value MCB? I dont know how to work that out as it is impossible without guesswork and that seems rather innacurate.

If you assume that the load is even then the calculation is 2.5 cable with a 4.3 volt drop at 16a. If you run on an imbalance and pull 20 amps around one leg then you need 4mm so how can this be proved as there is no knowledge of how the circuit will be used You could say maybe then use 4mm for your ring with good reason but I notice this has not happened so there must be another reason. Kirchoffs law is no good so I'm stumped. I thought that was why in general use a 2.5TE  with a 32a or if in doubt 24a breaker was the acceptable way as it is lets say a good compromise.

 
How torturous can a 2m run be that you want to only run one 4mm T&E instead of 2 x 2.5m T&E????


Feeding through two layers of ply 8" apart in a wall amongst the joists without drilling a hole you can walk through. I know its self inflicted but just seemed a possible solution.

 
Feeding through two layers of ply 8" apart in a wall amongst the joists without drilling a hole you can walk through. I know its self inflicted but just seemed a possible solution.
So you have ONE cable through the wall already.

Use that as a draw string to pull TWO 2.5mm cables through.

Job done.

 
Top