Catch 22

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phil d

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I applied recently for a job in command operations with my local fire brigade, basically I fancied a change and it seemed a decent job, ok so I'd have been a 'desk pilot', but hey wow. Anyway, I read the job description and all the usual stuff that goes with it and applied.

On Friday I received an E-mail saying I hadn't made interview stage, as I was not considered a suitable candidate, there was a vague reference made to my mental health issues, so I rang up to complain about being unfairly discriminated against. They immediately denied this and said the reason I had not made it to interview was that, although technically I had the right qualifications and experience to do the job, I hadn't actually cited instances where I had used my skills. In other words, I hadn't named actual situations that I had been in, so this led me to think, they'd obviously been in contact with the department I had worked in some years ago when I was a volunteer on the incident support team to check this out, but they actually wanted me to cite particular incidents, such as, 'attended a fire at a house in  Acacia st Anytown and assisted the Smith family following a large house fire'. This, however, would have been in direct conflict with GDPR, in fact, when I was on the IST we were constantly told never to discuss specifics outside of work with anyone, although my family knew what I was doing, even they were not privy to exactly what went on. OK, I might have come home and said I'd been to a bad fire in say Warrington, involving a family with children, but that was as far as it went, I never mentioned the area, or anything else, it's not done. Now it would appear they were asking me to break their own rules to get a job, or more likely to disbar me from the job, on the grounds that I had breached data regs by telling them things in order to get a job, catch 22.

Anyway, last night I had a rather interesting conversation with a chap, he'd been responsible for installing and commissioning a certain piece of kit used by all police forces.  recently a job came up for someone to operate this device in his local nick, he applied, he was doing fine until the face to face interview, at this point they realised he was disabled due to an accident a few years ago. Immediately they started making excuses about how he wouldn't be suitable for the job as he had a lack of experience! When he informed them that it was actually he who'd installed it, and taught them how it worked several years ago they became all obstructive.

Ok, he's classed as disabled due to physical injuries, I,m classed as disabled due to mental issues, we both get knocked back when they find this out,and yet there's supposed to be all this about positive discrimination for the disabled, well from these experiences it looks like the only thing going on is that, you can be positive they will discriminate against you.

 
I thought their only legal obligation was to look at your application. 

I'm not saying it's correct, but I've turned down applications due to disabilities, both physical mind but that's no different to mental. I never told the applicants this was the reason I didn't progress them further. 

 
I needed a new shift electrician for the quarry. 

2 applicants had pretty serious back problems, 1 had vertebrae fused. 

I knew full well they couldn't physically do the job, or not for long without time off, causing them more injury.  Both on paper were well enough qualified and their prior experience that was written on CV's said they should have had a decent amount of knowledge. 

Would this be classed as me discriminating? Probably, but as you know Tony, work in quarry's is physically demanding even with the correct tools and lifting gear. 

 
I would say it was a sensible decision and I wouldn’t hesitate to tell the candidate the reason if they asked.

Mental disability is a hard one, you can’t see the symptoms and if the candidate chooses not to reveal it………….

 
In all honesty if they had told me about serious mental illness, I would've most likely not given them the interview either. 

These people had the responsibility of other peoples lives in their hands. I wouldn't have taken the risk.

 
It’s interesting isn’t it we all are preached and preach honesty yet the reality is it very rarely pays other than too give the individual a clear conscience that they have not been dishonest. 

To me it’s a sign of a very sad social disease, to have to lie just to get by yet I’m really not that surprised given when you look at most in authority wouldn’t know the truth if it stared them directly in the face. Lead by example we are taught yet the example is wrong to start with? 

 
In all honesty if they had told me about serious mental illness, I would've most likely not given them the interview either. 

These people had the responsibility of other peoples lives in their hands. I wouldn't have taken the risk.
I hear where you are coming from Rob, and to be honest I think I'd be wary about employing people with certain mental health issues, I got stabbed in the shoulder by a girlfriend who it turned out was psychotic, she ended up being sectioned, but my problems are different. As you may know I ended up with PTSD and clinical depression, I went through all kinds of treatment and now need to get back into fulltime work, ok, I run the maintenance for the grain store, but that's only on an as and when basis, ppm and breakdowns. My biggest issue now is sat doing nothing, even the doctors agree that I'd be a lot better in a full time job, the trouble is that you mention mental health issues and everyone thinks of the film Psycho!

 
In all honesty if they had told me about serious mental illness, I would've most likely not given them the interview either. 

These people had the responsibility of other peoples lives in their hands. I wouldn't have taken the risk.


It’s up the candidate to reveal mental issues. My first nervous breakdown was 20 years before I joined the R&D department at the foundry. As far as I was concerned it was in the past and not worth mentioning.

I was ordered by the MD to do something I knew would be dangerous (I’d argued against it from the outset) so I did what I was told to do. About 2hrs later I put the original program back, the “bosses” time saving idea nearly killed four people. Following this I got a full veto on any program changes.

You mentioned “lives in their hands”, yes I had lives in my hands and it’s a constant mental pressure and led to my 2nd breakdown.

 
Exactly my point Tony, I know the mental pressure that's exerted on a person in these jobs. I wouldn't feel comfortable giving a job to someone who I knew had an underlying condition. For their well being and others.

I don't feel this is discrimination, however maybe a court might disagree. I know my conscience certainly wouldn't be clean if something did happen. I've been on sites where fatalities have happened, thankfully I wasn't the one having to inform the deceased family. 

 
Altering existing programs is a mind blower. Some I scrapped and did a total rewrite, on others I did a bodge job.

If I was at a loose end I’d have a wander around the plant, if I spotted something that was:

A/ dangerous

B/ time wasting

I’d do something about it without informing higher management. It led to a lot of fun with my boss in R&D. “Tony, can you have a look at this”, “No need, watch the machine, I’ve already programmed it in.”

 
The question is Phil, are these issues under control or are they still having a negative impact on you and your abilities to fulfil a full time roll? 
The impact at the minute is caused by being inactive, it's not good for self image when your wife is the main breadwinner, especially when you're used to bringing in a few grand a month.

Exactly my point Tony, I know the mental pressure that's exerted on a person in these jobs. I wouldn't feel comfortable giving a job to someone who I knew had an underlying condition. For their well being and others.

I don't feel this is discrimination, however maybe a court might disagree. I know my conscience certainly wouldn't be clean if something did happen. I've been on sites where fatalities have happened, thankfully I wasn't the one having to inform the deceased family. 
The thing is Rob, I'd worked all this out, the job in question was desk based there was nowhere near as much pressure as I was used to, hence why I wanted it.

 
The impact at the minute is caused by being inactive, it's not good for self image when your wife is the main breadwinner, especially when you're used to bringing in a few grand a month.


Ok Phil I hear you, so what are you focusing on? Where are your energies being used? 

You seem to be a very capable person and diligent spark, could you not then advertise your own wares and start with what you know? It may not be where you want to be but it’s the first steps towards getting to where you want to be - active and working? Also this way you are in control of your time, your life and most importantly you. I’m not suggesting you go  guns full blazing but start with where you are comfortable with. 

 
Ok Phil I hear you, so what are you focusing on? Where are your energies being used? 

You seem to be a very capable person and diligent spark, could you not then advertise your own wares and start with what you know? It may not be where you want to be but it’s the first steps towards getting to where you want to be - active and working? Also this way you are in control of your time, your life and most importantly you. I’m not suggesting you go  guns full blazing but start with where you are comfortable with. 
At the moment I'm just helping a mate do a house up, I don't want to go back into electrics because  I just don't really enjoy it anymore, plus I don't want my own business again, been there, done that. I just want something else that interests me that is as far away from sparking as possible.

 
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