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Evans Electric

Evans Electric

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A common installation method I saw a lot of as an apprentice was  for wiring a machine shop , say .    Can't seem to find it under   " Installation Method  A /B /C  etc. 

A trunking , lid up ,  laid on the roof purlins  with  four cables  , TPN   ( 3 reds +black )  size  either  7/.064  or  19/.052    ( 16mm   or 25mm )   Usually fused at   60A  or 100A rewirable  . 

Where a machine drop was required a steel conduit installed down to a sw/fuse  fitted to the machine .     Wired in most cases with   three  x 3/.036    (4mm)  reds   , ( Earthing via trunk/conduit )  .   Conduit could be hanging in free air from above , finishing with flexi-con .    

The 4mms in the trunking would be connected to the downshop cables with line - taps .  So , cut a one inch section of insulation off the 25mm  ,  fit a line-tap over it , poke in the end of your 4mm & tighten up .   Often carried out live .     Check the machine for direction  & move on . 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I never even knew these things existed.

Are they strictly legal? As in do they still comply with the regs.

BHS95.JPG

 
The DNO’s use them all the time for OH lines. Somewhere in one of my tool chests I’ve got a couple left for me by the NWEB to reconnect my house to the supply. The original Bakelite covering used to be filled with Chattertons compound, now plastic covers replace them.

 
rapparee said:
I never even knew these things existed.

Are they strictly legal? As in do they still comply with the regs.

View attachment 9919
Click to expand...
In a domestic situation then if they were enclosed in a box then no different to any other form of connection, if you think about it they are only like the connectors used inside a junction box, normally though I think you'd find them more in an industrial environment.

 
Tony S said:
The DNO’s use them all the time for OH lines. Somewhere in one of my tool chests I’ve got a couple left for me by the NWEB to reconnect my house to the supply. The original Bakelite covering used to be filled with Chattertons compound, now plastic covers replace them.
Click to expand...
Not heard of Chattertons compound mentioned since the 80s, we used to have them in about 1” crayon like form and we used them for repairing big old lead acid batteries if my memory serves me correctly. Cheers for that Tony, brought back a few memories.

 
roys said:
Not heard of Chattertons compound mentioned since the 80s, we used to have them in about 1” crayon like form and we used them for repairing big old lead acid batteries if my memory serves me correctly. Cheers for that Tony, brought back a few memories.
Click to expand...
BICC used to make some brown stuff for sealing joints outdoors, it was soft like putty but a sort of chocolate colour, you used to find it in conduit boxes quite often when they'd made a joint. After it had been in a year or so it went hard, it kept the damp out but it was a real ****** to get back out if you had a problem to fix.

here's a link to what Wikipedia has to say about Chattertons.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chatterton's_compound

 
Last edited by a moderator:
roys said:
Not heard of Chattertons compound mentioned since the 80s, we used to have them in about 1” crayon like form and we used them for repairing big old lead acid batteries if my memory serves me correctly. Cheers for that Tony, brought back a few memories.
Click to expand...


The only use of Chattertons compound I’ve come across was joining PILC control cables to VIR in a breakout box. They were the link between our two main substations to control the dual busbar switchboards. They were also linked through at two intermediate subs.

I’ve got the handbook for Reyrolle Class B switchgear which shows how to make the transition joint. If I can kick my scanner back in to life I’ll copy the pages.

Phil, that brown gunk was BICC’s sealer for Pyro but it got used for just about anything and everything. Last time I used it was a 433V joint on a bridge above a tank of hot caustic. The tank was rotten, the bridge was rotten and I felt rotten.

 
Evans Electric said:
Wired in most cases with   three  x 3/.036    (4mm)
Click to expand...
Just spotted my typo   ...4mm is equal to 7/.036    NOT   3/.036 . 

rapparee said:
I never even knew these things existed.

Are they strictly legal? As in do they still comply with the regs.
Click to expand...
There used to be a  2 way  connector block that fitted into   2 X 2 trunking  ,  it blocked the trunking completely   so you fitted two of them   in line .   Trying to remember  , you stripped 2 phases & clamped them in the first one ....the other two cables went over the top , 1 ph  + 1 N   & were connected in the next one , designed for 16mm  6491X  .

Then the same method as above with  four  say , 2.5  or 4 mm  connected live into them , fairly safe unless you dropped the screwdriver across them .

And obviously  the machine drop was not fused down to  it's size  so usually backed by  60A    re-wireables .      

Quite surprising how many guys drilled the tank cutter  into the trunking with the live  16mms in there  .

Based upon these things , our supervisor was known as    , ( I change his name here )  Line -Tap Johnson .  

The same bloke who told me the following .     Working at a hospital I had to mount a new sw/fuse onto a bus bar chamber  ,  I'd taken the cover off to look  & knew we needed to drill the busbars  for our lugs .  

So phoned it in saying we needed a shutdown  .     He came out to site , a rare  happening  ,    told me to drill the casing & catch the slug with a bit of wood  ...then the best bit which I never forgot ,   to drill the busbars  , remove the earth from the metal cased drill  ,  don't touch earth ,   stand on the rubber mat , drill the BB,s   and  BOLT ON THE  cable lugs !!!!    And promptly left .    I thought about it for 2 seconds  , imagined sliding my hand behind the BB,s  to hold a spanner on the nuts  & thought ..NAW!!    

I had just come on the tools ,  working alone  ,  H&S  not yet invented   & you tend to think these people know better  .     

I dropped it onto the hospital engineer to sort ,  you can't do it out of hours  because that situation doesn't exist there.  

 
Evans Electric said:
Just spotted my typo   ...4mm is equal to 7/.036    NOT   3/.036 . 

There used to be a  2 way  connector block that fitted into   2 X 2 trunking  ,  it blocked the trunking completely   so you fitted two of them   in line .   Trying to remember  , you stripped 2 phases & clamped them in the first one ....the other two cables went over the top , 1 ph  + 1 N   & were connected in the next one , designed for 16mm  6491X  .

Then the same method as above with  four  say , 2.5  or 4 mm  connected live into them , fairly safe unless you dropped the screwdriver across them .

And obviously  the machine drop was not fused down to  it's size  so usually backed by  60A    re-wireables .      

Quite surprising how many guys drilled the tank cutter  into the trunking with the live  16mms in there  .

Based upon these things , our supervisor was known as    , ( I change his name here )  Line -Tap Johnson .  

The same bloke who told me the following .     Working at a hospital I had to mount a new sw/fuse onto a bus bar chamber  ,  I'd taken the cover off to look  & knew we needed to drill the busbars  for our lugs .  

So phoned it in saying we needed a shutdown  .     He came out to site , a rare  happening  ,    told me to drill the casing & catch the slug with a bit of wood  ...then the best bit which I never forgot ,   to drill the busbars  , remove the earth from the metal cased drill  ,  don't touch earth ,   stand on the rubber mat , drill the BB,s   and  BOLT ON THE  cable lugs !!!!    And promptly left .    I thought about it for 2 seconds  , imagined sliding my hand behind the BB,s  to hold a spanner on the nuts  & thought ..NAW!!    

I had just come on the tools ,  working alone  ,  H&S  not yet invented   & you tend to think these people know better  .     

I dropped it onto the hospital engineer to sort ,  you can't do it out of hours  because that situation doesn't exist there.  
Click to expand...
I'd get strung up today for some of the things I've done in the past, drilled into boards live, drilled trunkings with live cables inside, bolted stuff onto busbars, shortened or jointed live cables, swapped all sorts of fittings live, but I'm not the only one, anyone of a certain age did it. You weighed up the risk and then thought about whether or not you could do it and that was that. I've done some stuff live and people thought I was mad, then again I've insisted on shutting down to do some things that should have been easy, experience told me they wouldn't, so off went the power, it's all about experience and knowing your limits.

The trouble these days is H&S has taken the thinking out of the job and common sense has gone out of the window! I remember drilling a trunking that went into a busbar chamber, I used a stick to hold the cables out of the way and a lump of rag stuffed in the bottom of the trunking to stop the slug dropping into the chamber.

I'm sure there's still a bit of the old school stuff still done by the older sparks, but it's done more secretly, years ago you'd just get on with it, now I suppose it's done when there's nobody else around.

 
phil d said:
I'd get strung up today for some of the things I've done in the past, drilled into boards live, drilled trunkings with live cables inside, bolted stuff onto busbars, shortened or jointed live cables, swapped all sorts of fittings live, but I'm not the only one, anyone of a certain age did it. You weighed up the risk and then thought about whether or not you could do it and that was that. I've done some stuff live and people thought I was mad, then again I've insisted on shutting down to do some things that should have been easy, experience told me they wouldn't, so off went the power, it's all about experience and knowing your limits.

The trouble these days is H&S has taken the thinking out of the job and common sense has gone out of the window! I remember drilling a trunking that went into a busbar chamber, I used a stick to hold the cables out of the way and a lump of rag stuffed in the bottom of the trunking to stop the slug dropping into the chamber.

I'm sure there's still a bit of the old school stuff still done by the older sparks, but it's done more secretly, years ago you'd just get on with it, now I suppose it's done when there's nobody else around.
Click to expand...
I do this all the time. I wouldn't even consider it as working live.

I use a 4mm screwdriver to keep the cables propped out of the trunking and then bore in with a 20mm hole saw.

I also wouldn't consider myself an older spark.

I do the dodgey working at heights stuff between 5pm and 7pm whenever the health and safety officer is away home.

 
rapparee said:
I do this all the time. I wouldn't even consider it as working live.

I use a 4mm screwdriver to keep the cables propped out of the trunking and then bore in with a 20mm hole saw.

I also wouldn't consider myself an older spark.

I do the dodgey working at heights stuff between 5pm and 7pm whenever the health and safety officer is away home.
Click to expand...
Just hope he doesn't read this then, lol.

 

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