Mandatory rental EICR 's ongoing information .

I asked the NICEIC  why a new scheme was to be set up to carry out  private rental housing  testing  .

I find it ludicrous that  we would install & certify  half a semi detached house    ..but would NOT be able to  do an EICR in the other  ( rented) half  .  

Their answer below.   

wonder what this 'checklist' is?

I don't see the point of any new "scheme" unless they have sharp teeth and use them.

"Money , money , money ...its a rich man's world !  "  

There is only one layer of electricians , the one that exists at this moment in time .   So , if a NEW  " Rented Property Testing "  scheme is developed  , where will the operatives come from ,?      They will be the SAME operatives  who are already here , working , testing , paying their scheme subscriptions  and now ....IF they wish to do rental testing ...will be paying into yet another scheme  , doubtless to be visited every year by the Rental Testing  Scheme Police   ( RTSP)  .

Strange , I'm doing an EICR  on a rented property in a couple of weeks  ,    I just filled out a Domestic Fire Alarm Cert for it ..... then after that I won't be able to do any more .   

And even more stupid .....at present , if I rewired a rented house , I would design it ,   I would test it , I'd certify it ,  I'd be guaranteeing it ,  our sticker would be on the consumer unit ...  I could be taking my Assessor to see it ,    .......................  but I will not  be able to return at a change of tenancy  to carry out a, EICR .        

Ant they wonder why sparks are getting Part Peed off with this trade  .       

The checklist says

• Do I understand it
  
• Can i actually test/fix it to latest regs and e.g. replace removed cable terminations properly
  
• Can I certify it if I do have to actually fix it
  
• Can I test everything properly by just plugging in a socket checker in each room
  
• Will I (and the landlord) be adequately covered for any problems that occur later
  

As long as the answer to all the above are NO

• Proceed to exchange impressive certificate for Credit card payment.
  

I say it  will be introduced with all the bells and whistles then quickly forgotten as per Part P. 

Take our Dekes example, are we to believe that his customer who trusts his work is going to call upon the services of an unknown, because they are registered to do this work above using Deke the man they trust? 

Where oh where has the common sense of the world gone? 

Perhaps we need to implement a similar system on MPs, despite years of experience as a politician ( use of in loosest form possible) we can only write to or involve those that are members of a public approved competent scheme. 

See how quick they run those headless chickens!! 

Evans Electric said:

I asked the NICEIC  why a new scheme was to be set up to carry out  private rental housing  testing  .

I find it ludicrous that  we would install & certify  half a semi detached house    ..but would NOT be able to  do an EICR in the other  ( rented) half  .  

Click to expand...

Evans Electric said:

IF they wish to do rental testing ...will be paying into yet another scheme  , doubtless to be visited every year by the Rental Testing  Scheme Police   ( RTSP)  .

And even more stupid .....at present , if I rewired a rented house , I would design it ,   I would test it , I'd certify it ,  I'd be guaranteeing it ,  our sticker would be on the consumer unit ...  I could be taking my Assessor to see it ,    .......................  but I will not  be able to return at a change of tenancy  to carry out a, EICR .        

Click to expand...

Not much different to how it is at the moment if you want to use "Logoed" Condition Reports for a PIR..

i.e.

I could have rewired a property 10 Years ago, Issued Logoed Electrical Certificate, Notified for Part-P  etc..

(Used if for an annual assessment)..

But once it's 10 years old and customer asks me to pop back to do an inspection (as my sticker on the front says it is due)..

I can re-do my tests etc..

BUT... I can't give them a logoed Condition report for an installation that I installed & tested initially with a logoed EIC... 

Unless I want to pay them more than just the basics for Part-P compliance....

Even though I am all C&G qualified for Insp&Test as per 2391 from  19years ago now!!!

:C

But I could have done a few alterations to the same installation..

And issued another full Logoed Installation certificate covering the exact same stuff I can't issue a Logo EICR!!!!

:shakehead

:coat

SPECIAL LOCATION said:

Not much different to how it is at the moment if you want to use "Logoed" Condition Reports for a PIR..

i.e.

I could have rewired a property 10 Years ago, Issued Logoed Electrical Certificate, Notified for Part-P  etc..

(Used if for an annual assessment)..

But once it's 10 years old and customer asks me to pop back to do an inspection (as my sticker on the front says it is due)..

I can re-do my tests etc..

BUT... I can't give them a logoed Condition report for an installation that I installed & tested initially with a logoed EIC... 

Unless I want to pay them more than just the basics for Part-P compliance....

Even though I am all C&G qualified for Insp&Test as per 2391 from  19years ago now!!!

:C

But I could have done a few alterations to the same installation..

And issued another full Logoed Installation certificate covering the exact same stuff I can't issue a Logo EICR!!!!

:shakehead

:coat

Click to expand...

not really accurate. you couldnt give them a logo'd EICR, but there is nothing to stop you from doing one providing you dont use their logo certs. in this case, it looks as though you will need to be registered with another scam to do the EICR regardless of logo's

Andy™ said:

not really accurate. you couldnt give them a logo'd EICR, but there is nothing to stop you from doing one providing you dont use their logo certs. in this case, it looks as though you will need to be registered with another scam to do the EICR regardless of logo's

Click to expand...

I didn't say I couldn't use un-logoed condition reports...

That is precisely what I have done and do do, as there is no economic justification for me to pay more just to have a couple of square inches of logo on a few sheets of A4.

I only do occasional Landlord PIR's for people who I already have a good working relationship with, and typically only have one or two properties..

(e.g. their parents old house, or partners old house when they move in together, maybe two or three properties max, often managed directly with no letting agents involved.)

So not talking of the large scale multi-property portfolio via big letting agent chains who want a PIR done in half and hour for less than £50! 

So with occasional rental PIR's on properties you are reasonably familiar with and there are no nasties hiding in the fuse box….

there could always be different routes round the block to get to the shops...

i.e.

Say if a landlord wanted a few minor changes...      (Do job issue logoed MWC)

But there is nothing stopping you issuing a full EIC for even a few minor bits...     (Do job issue logoed full EIC)

And if a landlord was refurbishing the property between tenancy..     (Do work issue full EIC)

And as a full EIC is pretty much = or => to a EICR in the world of electrical certification TopTrumps..

So no need to go issuing a logoed EICR if you are already in possession of a current logoed EIC..

So if a landlord happened to want an EICR done but also had a few minor alterations for you to do whilst there..    

(Move a socket moved... or extra double socket by the TV..)

You could just do your checks.. "Do your minor alterations"..   Issue a Logoed EIC..

You get paid the same by your customer..

They have a bit of logoed paper saying the installation is compliant with current regs..

No need to pay anyone else for a different format of electrical report!

Guinness  

The issue is not whether there is a logo on the EICR or not.

It seems to me that IF the purpose of the EICR is for a rental, you are going to have to join another gravy train.  But if the purpose of the EICR is just because the owner wants to know (for any reason) what state his wiring is in, then anyone can issue that, with or without a logo without joining the new gravy train.

Madness.

SPECIAL LOCATION said:

I didn't say I couldn't use un-logoed condition reports...

That is precisely what I have done and do do, as there is no econ

Click to expand...

i know, and i do the same, use my own forms ithout the scams name. ut they are wanting it so you will have to be registered with a scam for EICR's to do them

Andy™ said:

i know, and i do the same, use my own forms ithout the scams name. ut they are wanting it so you will have to be registered with a scam for EICR's to do them

Click to expand...

Yes but ONLY if the purpose of that EICR is "property rental"

ProDave said:

Yes but ONLY if the purpose of that EICR is "property rental"

Click to expand...

madness

Andy™ said:

madness

Click to expand...

The lunatics are running the asylum 

Seem to be overcomplicating a simple evaluation in my opinion:-   An electrician who is a member of any of the government recognised trade bodies, And who holds a qualification in Inspection & testing, basically meets the criteria of competence defined in Guidance Note 3.   Therefore should be perfectly entitled to do any electrical work within the scope of BS7671 & GN3, and issue appropriate certificates or reports with the logo of the trade body they are a member of.  Any electrician who has no inspection & test qualification then cant issue any EICR.  Simples! 

Doc H.  

Doc Hudson said:

Any electrician who has no inspection & test qualification then cant issue any EICR.  Simples! 

Doc H.  

Click to expand...

basically, youre saying that i cant do EICR's...

Andy™ said:

basically, youre saying that i cant do EICR's...

Click to expand...

Sounds like it yes, if you have no recognised inspection & test qualification?  It has got to be simplest measure to use, as defined in GN3, (yellow). Rather than faffing around with additional trade body memberships. (green). As has been discussed in the past, is not ultimately about if you consider yourself competent or not, or how good are a doing periodic inspection. As very few electricians, (or any tradesperson for that mater), consider themselves to be average or below average, and nearly always think of themselves as more experienced, skilled or knowledgeable than the bulk of their peers. And even if you are above average, what other common measure do you use to prove your competence, when there is an industry established C&G qualification that has been around for many years covering the very task that you need to prove competence in?   We all know test and inspect of a brand new installation you have just installed, to a design you are familiar with, is a different task to evaluating the condition of a 30+ year old installation with no documentation, that has been installed to numerous issues of BS7671 plus a bit of DIY.  But that said,  when asked to go and install a new circuit onto a 30+ year old installation you are by default having to inspect and test the part of the installation that you are extending! It is a circular argument with loads of contradictions, which is maybe why a qualification is now specifically mentioned in GN3, I don't think that line was there in all previous issues?   

Doc H.

Wouldn't it be easier just to become an approved contractor with the niceic 

Well it will be interesting when my 3 rentals require an inspection And some be-suited twonk tells me I cannot do it ( well, TRIES to tell me I can't )

kerching said:

Well it will be interesting when my 3 rentals require an inspection And some be-suited twonk tells me I cannot do it ( well, TRIES to tell me I can't )

Click to expand...

id rather see the reaction when some 5DW gives you an EICR full of C1 and C2's and tells you it needs a rewire