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Seagull27

Where to put smoke/fire/CO detectors, which type to use, etc.

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Seagull27

Hi

I've got someone coming to quote for a load of electrical work later next week. Amongst the work will be installing fire/CO alarms around the house. I'll discuss the options and details with him, but wanted to get a heads up first so I can think about the options and requirements.

I've uploaded an image of the layout of the house...  I've marked where we will be having woodburners, and where the oil boiler is. The three red circles are where I was thinking makes sense for alarms/detectors...

- The kitchen is half open plan to the dining room, so one takes care of that side of the house. I guess it could go in the dining room if that's better, but it will be a lot easier to install in the kitchen because some of the floorboards above are already up. The dining on the other hand is single storey with no roof access.

- The sitting room is open to the stairwell, so I thought one on the stairwell ceiling would take care of the sitting room and upstairs.

- The utility room and studio are in the former cowshed and separated from the rest of the house by a metre thick wall. I'll spend a lot of time in the studio as it is like a living room as well. So I thought definitely one in there but wasn't sure if I needed one in the utility room as well.


I'm by no means fixed on any of that though - it's just the first idea that came to me. So I'm open to all suggestions. It would also be really helpful to know what type would be best where, in what areas CO alarms are needed, and any other useful info.

Cheers

_Fire Alarms Map.png

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SPECIAL LOCATION

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Seagull27

Hi

 

Thanks Special Location.


Well, I've just been in touch with Aico and they have been very helpful indeed. I'm just waiting to hear back from them now with further info and recommendations. 

In the meantime...

- Seeing as the kitchen / Dining room is more or less open plan, and that the kitchen has a cooker and the dining room will have a woodburner, is there a way to have one detector cover both rooms. I'm just thinking that if the CO needs to be within 3m of the woodburner... Could I maybe put a Heat and CO combined detector no more than 3m from the woodburner or would that be too far away from the cooker then?  I'll see what Aico say but am interested in any suggestions in the meantime.

- EasiChange. I was looking at these last night and they seem like a good idea. Has anyone used them? Are they as good as they look? If so, are all Aico detectors compatible with them or do Aico do their own equivalent? 

- Can you get combined heat, smoke and CO detectors? Seems that manufacturers tend to pair these up in various ways but I can't see any that do all three... 

Cheers

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binky

not seen a CO detector combined with anything else

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Seagull27
Just now, binky said:

not seen a CO detector combined with anything else

 

There are lots about, but they only combine CO with heat or smoke, not both from what I can tell.

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Seagull27

Well, I can answer some of my own questions... 

 

It doesn't seem as there are any combined heat, smoke and CO (all 3) detectors about.  None that I could find anyhow.

 

Easichange should be compatible with all Aico units.  Will need to find out about other manufacturers...

 

I'm still not sure about whether one unit can cover both the kitchen and dining room. 

 

Also, whilst Aico were very helpful, they unfortunately do not do combined smoke/CO detectors, so I'm going to have to look at other manufacturers for at least some of the detectors.  In Aico's plan I would need 10 detectors in all, but that's because in 3 areas there are separate CO and optical smoke detectors.  And perhaps one or two that are surplus to requirements elsewhere.  Very helpful company indeed though.  

 

The other thing I am now going to look into is what systems are available for telling whether detectors are being set off by smoke or CO.  I'm guessing that will be pretty valuable in a mixed set up. 

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Murdoch
1 hour ago, Seagull27 said:

 

There are lots about, but they only combine CO with heat or smoke, not both from what I can tell.

 

what would the point of a combined smoke and heat? 

 

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Seagull27

I'm trying to work out whether a single alarm would suffice in the open kitchen / dining room.  It has been recommended that the kitchen have a heat detector, and the dining room a smoke detector, so I was wondering if a single detector could cover all bases....  

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Murdoch
10 minutes ago, Seagull27 said:

I'm trying to work out whether a single alarm would suffice in the open kitchen / dining room.  It has been recommended that the kitchen have a heat detector, and the dining room a smoke detector, so I was wondering if a single detector could cover all bases....  

 

If its open plan a smoke alarm in the dining room would be set off by you burning your toast or bacon

 

Who recommended both in this room?

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Seagull27

Actually, looking at it again, they've recommended a combined heat and smoke detector close to where the two rooms meet, and a CO detector in the dining room for the wood burner.  

 

It's Aico's recommendation...

 

Thanks for the input

Edited by Seagull27

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Murdoch
Just now, Seagull27 said:

Actually, looking at it again, they've recommended a combined heat and smoke detector close to where the two rooms meet, and a CO detector in the dining room for the wood burner.  

 

It's Aico's recommendation...

 

Thanks for the input

 

I think you need to upload the Aico drawing as I would disagree in a open area, for the reason I gave above ....

 

bottom line is don’t scrimp on these alarms ..... if you value you and your families life .....

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Seagull27

OK, sure...  I've attached the plan.  The purple one is the Multi-Sensor Heat/Optical Alarm.  

 

Cheers

 

 

Aico Plan.jpg

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Murdoch
2 minutes ago, Seagull27 said:

OK, sure...  I've attached the plan.  The purple one is the Multi-Sensor Heat/Optical Alarm.  

 

Cheers

 

 

Aico Plan.jpg

 

Nothing marked ... or shown

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Seagull27

How bizarre!  When I copy and paste it from their plan the detectors are removed!  Never seen that before!  I've got to dash now but will see what I can do as soon as I'm back.  

 

Sorry about that...

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Seagull27

Right, sorry for the delay...  Here's the complete article this time!

 

 

Untitled.png

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Sidewinder

Go with Aico, it's a no brainer IMHO.

Go with their siting, they know what they are on about.

Mains power the alarms, but interlink wirelessly, don't scrimp, believe me it's worth it.

You can link the Co & Fire alarms so they all sound when one triggers, and you then fit the control switch which has silence and identify functions so you can tell whether it is a CO or fire that is detected, if you can't already tell!

The switch also has a test button which tests all alarms at the same time.

Finally, the beauty of the Aico's is that the bases are all interchangeable.

When I was there on my training (which is free for scheme registered contractors), they had no intentions of changing the designs of the base, so going forward older models could easily be swapped out for new.

You can't get away from the CO's by the solid fuel burners building regulations IIRC.

I personally would never use Optical or Heat, always multi sensor.

However, there is a cost to that, but what price do you put on your families life and your home.

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Murdoch
19 hours ago, Seagull27 said:

Right, sorry for the delay...  Here's the complete article this time!

 

 

Untitled.png

 

 

I 100% don’t think a multi sensor should be in the kitchen .....and if you look at the data sheet it doesn’t show kitchens as where it can go ....

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Seagull27

I'll get back in touch with them next week then and see what they've got to say about that.  Maybe its a mistake on their part.... I'll update the thread once I've heard from them.

 

Someone said today that it is better to have a heat detector in the rooms with woodburners to prevent false alarms.  I guess he was thinking when you open the door and smoke comes out, etc.  The good thing about that (apart from the lack of false alarms) would be that we could use Aico's combined heat and CO detectors instead of having to have two separate ones.  Any thoughts on that?

 

Many thanks  

 

 

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Sidewinder

Multi sensor detectors can be used anywhere and are less prone to false alarms.

If they did a multi & CO combined it would be the holy grail! ;)

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Murdoch
Just now, Sidewinder said:

Multi sensor detectors can be used anywhere and are less prone to false alarms.

If they did a multi & CO combined it would be the holy grail! ;)

 

Not 100% I agree with that ....cooking our dinner tonight under the grill, with the hall door open, the hall triggered .....the heat alarm didn’t 

 

so how can a multi sensor be used in a kitchen without it being triggered by the burning toast or bacon ?

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Seagull27

 

 

4 minutes ago, Sidewinder said:

Multi sensor detectors can be used anywhere and are less prone to false alarms.

 

 

Sorry for the basic question, but how do they work...?  Do they trigger in the event of either detecting something, or only when both do?  I presume the former but you never know...

 

4 minutes ago, Sidewinder said:

 If they did a multi & CO combined it would be the holy grail! ;)

 

Not according to Murdoch it wouldn't!  

 

Aico did say they are currently working on a combined optical/CO detector.  I'm sure someone somewhere is beavering away at making a multi and combined...

 

EDIT

Haha - you beat me to it Murdoch :)  

 

Hope you enjoyed your dinner

 

Edited by Seagull27

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Sidewinder

Multi should only trigger on all sensors detecting, not either.

 

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