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Charms41

Help! My tenant has recently changed to a smart meter now Economy 7 not working to storage heaters /water cylinder

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Charms41

Hello, i wonder if any of you knowledgeable people out there can help. My tenant has just changed to a smart meter. As soon as this meter has been installed the overnight electricity supply to the storage heaters and water cylinder has stopped working. Initially we thought it was the water heater and changed the element but after that discovered that no overnight electricity supply, hence it’s not working.

There is a separate fuse board for these overnight economy 7 items. All fuses are in on position.

Power supply company saying it’s not a problem with their new meter. Seems highly likely to me as this power supply stopped as soon as it was fitted. 

I’m just even wondering how you can go about fault detection on a supply that only turns on overnight??

what can I do.

thank you for your anticipated advice. Charmaine  

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Andy™

if it worked and now doesnt, demand they come and refit the old meter and that you want someone competent and not a barely trained monkey to do it

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Murdoch

Very few meter installers understand economy 7 ................ so I would agree with above and tell them to come back. 

 

If in the meantime your tenant is using peak electricity to heat their water, then you need to claim for these costs too

 

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ProDave

Well your tenant created a problem for HIMSELF so I would suggest your tenant gets onto his electricity supplier and demands they change BACK to an ecomony 7 supply.

 

As far as I know smart meters are not available for economy 7 so you could argue the supply company was wrong to "offer" the smart meter, but your tenant was equally wrong to accept it. you do NOT have to accept a smart meter and there is no proven advantage to the customer of having one.

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Andy™

any pics of the meter? id like to see were the off peak cable is suspended in mid air

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ProDave
2 hours ago, Charms41 said:

 

I’m just even wondering how you can go about fault detection on a supply that only turns on overnight??

 

There is plenty of dead testing you can do on the off peak circuits to confirm they will work when the off peak supply comes on at night.

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Murdoch
1 hour ago, ProDave said:

As far as I know smart meters are not available for economy 7 so you could argue the supply company was wrong to "offer" the smart meter, but your tenant was equally wrong to accept it. you do NOT have to accept a smart meter and there is no proven advantage to the customer of having one.

 

Is this true?

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Hefferl

I had exactly this happen to a client of mine. I spoke to the energy provider and it turned out that some part of the process at their end had not taken place - the issuing of a code or number or something similar.

They did what ever was necessary on their system and assured me everything was resolved and would kick in that night.

It did and no 2nd visit to the premises was needed.

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Charms41
4 hours ago, ProDave said:

There is plenty of dead testing you can do on the off peak circuits to confirm they will work when the off peak supply comes on at night.

 

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Charms41

So if all else fails then I can get someone out in the day to try and fault detect. It just seems very much of a coincidence that they’ve had this meter fitted and within 24hrs they are reporting fault with water cylinder. Changed element thinking it was that but still didn’t come on. Then tried heaters and they didn’t come on either. Eon engineer came back out today to say nothing wrong with meter but I can’t see that it is anything else?? 

Am I right in thinking that it is the energy companies responsibility to put right. Got a feeling this is going to cause me a right headache. I’m feeling very stressed. Already cost a fortune on unnecessary boiler repair

59 minutes ago, Hefferl said:

I had exactly this happen to a client of mine. I spoke to the energy provider and it turned out that some part of the process at their end had not taken place - the issuing of a code or number or something similar.

They did what ever was necessary on their system and assured me everything was resolved and would kick in that night.

It did and no 2nd visit to the premises was needed.

 

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Charms41

Also the water heater now working off normal supply so I know it’s not the cylinder.

 

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Doc Hudson
1 hour ago, Charms41 said:

Changed element thinking it was that but still didn’t come on. 

 

 

It sounds to me as though you are using the cheapest, unskilled, incompetent method of fault detection here. Why would anyone change anything that they haven't proved is actually faulty? In my opinion any competent, qualified, and experienced electrician, would be able to test and identify how your system is now set up and offer suitable guidance to any remedial action required to bring it back to how you want it configured. But if you are expecting to get this sort of experience at DIY handyman hourly pay rates then you may as well just put a bucket on your head and whistle the national anthem. How is this your problem if it is something that the tenant organised?

 

Doc H.    

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Sidney

Ideally a couple of pictures of the meter and consumer units would help but I don't think the Economy 7 circuits not working is coincidence...

 

What is your location?

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ProDave

You need a methodical approach.

 

1)  Confirm by dead testing that the off peak water heater heater and storage heater circuits are correct and working. Tip measure resistance L-N of each circuit at the off peak CU, a working heater element will measure typically 10 to 30 ohms.

 

2) confirm an off peak supply IS connected to the CU.  If it has just been swapped for a normal smart meter, the meter will only have 4 terminals and no switched off peak output.  It should be obvious if there is a "spare" meter tail no longer going anywhere. A normal off peak supply with either have a separate time switch of some sort, or a modern dual rate meter with a built in time switch which will have a separate switched L output for the off peak consumer unit.

 

3) confirm the off peak supply is coming on at night. Now you don't want to be visiting your customer in the middle of the night.  So what I do is connect a neon between one of the off peak circuit L's and Neutral, and leave it somewhere visible.  Then instruct your customer to set an alarm, and go and have a look in the middle of the night and tell you (next day) if the neon came on in the night or not.  If it did not, then you have evidence to contact the supplier and tell them the off peak supply is not coming on at night and they need to fix it.  you don't need to worry what needs fixing, that is the DNO's responsibility. 

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Charms41

Thank you all for your replies, I’m in the West Midlands. I’m not an electrician, but I will try and go and get some photos of meters etc.  Will show all your responses to the electrician that I get out, and hope that it gives them some advice as not everyone deals with economy 7. Thank you all for your replies. 

 

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Charms41

Pro Dave, if I look up a local electrician and have them look at this problem do they need to be specialist in it or will all electricians have some understanding of it. Do I need to ask them anything specific to ensure they can say yes they will be able to deal with it or not? I’m back on the case today. Going to go and get some photos etc later

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Andy™

make sure they know how economy 7 works. many dont

 

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Charms41

Right here as some photos. These are my fuse boxes inside the apartment 

9AF27FA3-BEE2-465D-B15F-CDDCBADF2E62.jpeg

 

Edited by Charms41
Want to change poost

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ProDave

Picture not working

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Charms41

For some reason it won’t let me upload. I’ve been and got photos of meters and all the connections etc but can’t upload them 😥.

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ProDave

Make 2 more posts to get to a post count of 10 and it should then work.

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Apache

She's a bronze member so it should work. You can drag pictures into a post and the computer trickery should do the rest

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Charms41

No sorry I can’t get photos to upload. There were no loose dangling wires. They were all going into thing. However, when I was under the stairs in the electrical cupboard there was 1 thing that I noticed compared to all the older meters (installed in 2005 as a new build). 

The new meter is attached to a new box...all the old meters do not have one. But the new smart meter is attached to a 230v proteus heating contractor. 

From this box there are 2 wires that come out to an off peak and peak what I can only describe as a big fuse board. Once again that fuse is also in the on position. 

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ProDave

I can't help more until we see some photos.  Do you have a proper computer? Phones are not the best at uploading stuff sometimes.

 

 

Edited by ProDave

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ProDave

Here are the pictures that @Charms41 was trying to post

 

image.png.3948a6f44d676b1e782cb7cc24a3f756.png

 

image.png.af9525695e39311fcf9c85f5307d9b5c.png

 

image.png.8ad6ebf0e1e2ecee3c4d6075caaa6cda.png

image.png.6661d61e9eebccfcbe1c47ca2ea4c746.png

 

image.thumb.png.6eac42dcc2d0f50e3c8990b0bbb2c6df.png

 

 

image.thumb.png.136d09ec8fb8b80bc3e97b5869791bd4.png

 

And this was the original type of meter that was removed

image.png.1f6e213715253366ca2635ddc7c3f404.png

 

My comments.

 

The old meter had the "switch" to turn the off peak supply on built into it.

 

The new smart meter does not, but it has a switch contact (the 2 blue wired) to energise the external contactor (third picture) to turn on the supply to the off peak fuse box at night.

 

It all looks to be wired properly so I think you need to throw it back at the DNO becaue it might well be the meter not configured properly to turn on the off peak supply.

Edited by ProDave

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