Changing Job

Hi All

I am looking to change jobs from a maintenance electrician in the water industry to doing domestic/commercial installation/EICR

i have done a 4 year advanced apprenticeship and picked up other qualifications on the way.

just wanted some advice and thoughts on how to go about it and what i need to do to get the ball rolling??

Thanks in advance

I was an indentured industrial apprentice, no way would I go in to general contracting. OK there was muck and grease, I enjoyed it and had a reliable income.

I ran several (non associated) companies on the side, the bookkeeping drove me up the bloody wall! It’s up to you, if you like hours of doing paperwork, go for it. Having said that, for several years before I retired I was office bound.

Tony S said:

I was an indentured industrial apprentice, no way would I go in to general contracting. OK there was muck and grease, I enjoyed it and had a reliable income.

I ran several (non associated) companies on the side, the bookkeeping drove me up the bloody wall! It’s up to you, if you like hours of doing paperwork, go for it. Having said that, for several years before I retired I was office bound.

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I have enjoyed the last 9 years of it, and the income is reliable even if it isnt the best. i just thought i am young enough to try something different and see if i enjoy the contracting life.

Try it on a part time basis, weekends and such.

To fine tune any advice that may be forthcoming  :

Were you thinking of being self employed ?

Or working for a contractor ? 

So my original thought was to start with weekends evenings on my own like Tony said to build a client base. Then I can give my day time job up to be self employed. 

Have you done any cost analysis / business plan, to establish what your annual projected overheads would be? It is very easy to do a few jobs for family & friends, for a bit of extra pocket money at a much cheaper price than you would have to charge if you were genuinely trying to earn a living. There is a danger in establishing a reputation for doing cheap foreigners, as it isn't always the case that your new 'client base' will be willing to then pay real costs of a full time tradesman. It's not impossible to do what you propose, but marketing yourself and winning jobs that can actually pay a wage is not always as easy as some think. Technical aspects such as informing HMRC, attaining relevant qualifications or memberships of trades bodies, or doing the physical nuts & bolts of the job are all relatively easy. Its the admin, and pricing your jobs that catch out many new start-ups.      

Doc H. 

I wouldn't recommend doing  12  -  14 hr  days  to be honest .   

Possibly a contractor , if you know one ,  could use you at a weekend  ...give you a small idea of what contracting is like .  

Or  some smaller domestic jobs at weekends .    Neither is very satisfactory  really .  

Do you feel you're ready for a change of job ,  I 'm guessing you are with one of the water supply companies at the moment ..like Severn Trent etc?   

 Must say , a young guy , starting up on his own will have the fitness  to crack on  ,  build up some decent customers & earn decent dough .

With commercial work you 'll find yourself working in the evening ,at home ,  pricing up for quotes   ,  typing them up , get 'em posted ...working out invoices , typing those up ,  get 'em posted off .   Possibly emailing orders off for materials on the job you're actually doing in the day ,....   working out all the extra,s  that cropped up .. checking your cash flow  ( Constantly )!!!       Filing paperwork for your accounts .   

Domestic work , although still needs a quote , is far simpler ...you can work out a standard cost to , say,  replace a board  etc 

A few pointers :

Cash flow is KING !      You Mustn't let invoices   go unpaid     .  Domestic work usually pays upon completion .    Commercial terms will be 30  or 60 days ( see next item)

For Commercial work  you need at least a 30 day account at wholesalers   ( 60 is better  but in this day & age you 'd be lucky to get one )  

Commercial work would be  better if you register for VAT .

IF you get a commercial customer who pays on time  , treasure him ....if not sue him .

Commercial work , doubtful if you need to join NICEIC  etc     unless they specify .

Domestic work you MUST register with  a Competent Persons Scheme   to comply with Part P of the Building Regs   (  NIC / ELECSA/ NAPPITT / STROMA  etc) 

Local builder can be a good customer but don't let him rip you off ....again ..if he's good payer & has half a brain  treasure him . 

Business overheads will include :

          A Van .

          Insurance  /Road tax/ MOT / Fuel 

          Liability insurance  for at least  £1m    / Commercial £5m 

          Domestic schemes  average  £500  year 

          Set of your own test instuments    +  calibrate each year . 

         Books of Installation certs /  EICR  certs . 

Keep overheads as low as possible  , don't go mad with advertising  other than a web site .  

Doc Hudson said:

. Its the admin, and pricing your jobs that catch out many new start-ups.  

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Thats true !!  

While I'm back on ....you won't pat tax in the first year but make sure you have saved , say 20%  of earnings for when your accounts go in .  

As the Doc  said ,  starting up , inform  HMRC  & National Insurance  ( Either will inform the other) 

You'll pay a much reduced NI stamp when self employed ....make sure you DO pay it !!!!   It covers your state pension  but little else. 

After , I believe ..two years  self employed   you will no longer be entitled to employment benefits / the Dole / Job Seekers   /  whatever they  call it now. 

You're on your own !!!  

Thanks for the advice it has been really helpful. 

To answer some questions I work for a waste water company in the south east and we have to work call out and overtime so used to working all hours under the sun. Also I have a close relationship with a local electrical stores due to us using them for orders, also at work we have to scope and quote for material costs and charge them to the site manager.

I have currently a list of purchases I need to make when the business is up and running including insurances, competent persons scheme, Corp tax, calibration costs.Luckily all my test equipment and tools I will be able to take from my company when I leave which is one less cost. 

One thing I was wondering to get on a competent persons scheme i need to of done work in the last 12 months, would these jobs just need to be Inspected by building control and then that price added in to the job. 

I just want to get myself in the best position I.e work on the table and part of a competent persons scheme before jumping from my job to self employed.

Joining a scheme won't be a problem .   Better if you could  do a board change  complete with a full test on the installation , fill out a  standard cert off  the web ,  we may have some on here .     They need to know that ...basically ...you are competent ......  need to see your Regs book ,  and your  Electricity at Work act  book  ,  and that you can test .       Having a nice job to show does help TBH .

They take on these guys from the 5 week  speed schemes  so you should be fine .

As we always say on here , the scheme is membership based , once your cheque has cleared , you're in !     Don't go with NIC  they want about 300 jobs to choose from  I believe , any of the others  , doesn't matter which ,  its just a means to an end , a pain in the arse , another rip off  that allows you to sign off your own jobs to Building Control .  . 

After your last post then  I 'd say try to build up a few customers  of a weekend  ,  until you're happy to jump .    Try looking for a local social website called Nextdoor  if theres one in your area,      its around 4 sq miles , can be extended ,  consists of  lost cats ,  car for sale ,  reliable plumber /electrician / roofer / plasterer  needed .    Well worth a look . 

Approach local builders with a business card  too.     

Don't be afraid to come back here for anything  you are unsure of .  

Thank you for all the advice. I will look at the social website and post on there also I will start a facebook page to start promoting myself. I've ordered some business cards which should be here soon and will start spreading the word. 

A few more thoughts:

Make sure you tell your vehicle insurance company you are using it for commercial business

Open a business bank account to keep all monies separate

Keep ALL invoices for everything you buy for customers and business expenses and all invoices to customers

Get Public Liability insurance

Consider getting professional indemnity insurance if you plan to do EICR's

Consult an accountant about what you can claim and can't - to make sure your tax return is accurate and sensible ......... and if you don't have a mortgage yet, this is especially important as proof of earnings is tricky to do these days with out your made up books and input from HMRC

Develop relationships with local wholesalers - especially those who can deliver to site

Don't undersell yourself - when you are totally SE, there's no sick pay, no holiday pay, no employers contribution to your pension and loads of out of hours paperwork to deal with 

as for business expenses .......... between £5k and £6 k per year excluding buying a vehicle

Hope this helps

PS : enquiries from the internet tend to be the ones looking for the lowest prices .............

Good advice from Murdo there .

Just to add a bit more ,   as a Sole Trader  ,a van's expenses are 100% deductible ,  as opposed to estates  or saloons .    No need to monitor mileage etc  .

I forgot to mention   if you volunteer for VAT  registered   it will suit commercial work  but will kill stone dead  most of your domestic quotes .       Mr . Johnny No VAT  will beat you every time .    And Mr . Johnny  Just Doing a Foreigner    will also beat you every time . ( But he won't be able to notify Building Control )   (( But sometimes no one gives a shytte )) 

I wish you success , let us know how it goes . 

LukeySpark said:

Thank you for all the advice. I will look at the social website and post on there also I will start a facebook page to start promoting myself. I've ordered some business cards which should be here soon and will start spreading the word. 

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So I am guessing you have already decided upon your business trading name?

Have you looked at purchasing an internet domain name?

I was going to say before committing to a company name have a look at what domain names are available to match your proposed company name...

(may be too late if you have already ordered business cards though?)

Even if you leave establishing a website at this early stage almost every half decent company nowadays has some sort of webpage....

and you also have the choice of setting up bespoke company name e-mail addresses...

e.g.  You can look more professional as Lukey@"MyCompanyName"  rather than   Lukey@hotmail  or gmail or virgin etc..

If you are looking at domestic, go and have a look at the competent persons website....

http://www.electricalcompetentperson.co.uk/

Do a search with your post-code....

get an idea of how many other electricians you will be competing against...

AND have a look at their company names / emails / Websites or not..

think which ones stand out to you...

If you were looking for a contractor to do some work for your mom & dad... who would you pick? 

does you new company name/image/contact details match up with how you would choose a contractor???   :C

Exploit all of the free social media platforms that allow you to put a business listing onto them..

Try to give a physical land-line contact number as well as mobile & emails...

A lot of cowboys only give a mobile No...

If you are serious about being self employed let your target customers find out easily how they can contact you by more than one means..

A land-line and a physical snail-mail address boosts confidence that you are not going to evaporate like a fart in a colander once you've had the customers money! 

 Even if you have only started up yesterday, you need to cover all options that will not break the bank, to make you look more professional and established.

Notes re; paper-flyers through the letter box...

1/ I've been self employed since 1999.....  never ever used paper letterbox flyers.

2/ Me and my better half have just celebrated our 34th wedding anniversary in August...   during that time we must have had about a gazillion or more paper flyers come through our door or in the news papers, etc.. etc...

In all that time I could probably count on two fingers the number of flyers I have kept each year...  

They are generally the ones telling us when the bin collection days are changing due to Christmas holidays!!!

or which days are green recycling -vs- cans & cardboard recycling...

everything else is binned.. probably never read!!!

(So think very hard about wasting time & money with A5 flyers or similar)

:shakehead

Self employment is bloody hard work....

and the first 5 years are really hard graft getting yourself established....

But statistics show that if you can get past the first five years when most small businesses fail...

then you are probably doing the majority of stuff right with good potential to succeed..

AND also remember....

Even with small businesses that do fail...   Very few actually regret having a go!

Better to have a go and not succeed than to look back with regrets thinking.. "I wish I had tried setting up that business when I was thinking about it several years ago".

If you have a partner/wife who is earning a reasonable salary that can be a massive bonus while you are getting yourself setup..

If you do have any dependants needing time and attention, (e.g. children or elderly parents),  Self employment, being your own boss, managing your own time can be an unquantifiable bonus!!

Guinness

Forgot to add...

I purchased my business domain names via 123-reg.co.uk

My website is at the .co.uk address, but also purchased  .com  .net   .uk  and divert them all to .co.uk

.com is £15.99 per year ex vat

.co.uk is £9.99 per year ex vat

.net is £9.99 per year ex vat

.uk is £9.99 per year ex vat..

Total £55.15 inc vat per year for four domain name extensions.

SPECIAL LOCATION said:

get an idea of how many other electricians you will be competing against...

AND have a look at their company names / emails / Websites or not..

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Yes   bit weird the other day , I'm in Denmans picking up a few bits & paying my account ,   cheque book is on the counter .    The other customer is buying an Armeg  32mm cutter blade ,  he says add it to this guy's bill ...he won't notice  .   Its some sort of joke , I look  round & he,s wearing a fleece  with EVANS ELECTRICAL  on it  , he points to my cheque book which says  EVANS ELECTRIC  on the cheques . 

So theres a bit of banter ...." Well do you work for me or do I work for you ?  "  etc   

SPECIAL LOCATION said:

Notes re; paper-flyers through the letter box..

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SPECIAL LOCATION said:

everything else is binned.. probably never read!!!

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This is very true .

SPECIAL LOCATION said:

Forgot to add...

I purchased my business domain names via 123-reg.co.uk

My website is at the .co.uk address, but also purchased  .com  .net   .uk  and divert them all to .co.uk

.com is £15.99 per year ex vat

.co.uk is £9.99 per year ex vat

.net is £9.99 per year ex vat

.uk is £9.99 per year ex vat..

Total £55.15 inc vat per year for four domain name extensions.

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I second the idea to get domain names, but I'm not sure 123 reg is the best place to get them from, they like to creep up the price year on year, like cable TV or car insurance providers!

Better to go with a trusted small provider than a national like 123 or Go-daddy!

Not sure if this is allowed by moderators? ........I recently moved my domains from 123 to free-thought internet who have hosted my email and a bit of webspace (not used for business use - just some personall projects) for a few years to Freethought https://www.freethought-internet.co.uk/domains Which is run by some chaps I knew back in school (they went into IT, started it as a side project, and then moved to focusing on it full time)

Go with whoever you like!   However, the annual domain cost for standard domains is tiny compared to professional web hosting let alone design you may need.   

I would just say 123-Reg have always been superb on customer service when things need changing or fixing.  (And I had about 20 domains for 3 different companies on the go with them at one time) 

Phoenix said:

I second the idea to get domain names, but I'm not sure 123 reg is the best place to get them from, they like to creep up the price year on year, like cable TV or car insurance providers!

Better to go with a trusted small provider than a national like 123 or Go-daddy!

Not sure if this is allowed by moderators? ........I recently moved my domains from 123 to free-thought internet who have hosted my email and a bit of webspace (not used for business use - just some personall projects) for a few years to Freethought https://www.freethought-internet.co.uk/domains Which is run by some chaps I knew back in school (they went into IT, started it as a side project, and then moved to focusing on it full time)

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Its been over 7 years since I purchased my .com & .co.uk names.

I can't recall who else was around then? but I don't think the 123 costs were that much different to many of the other options available back in 2012.

The actual hosting and email names are provided by a certain forum related  http://www.cloud9dynamics.com/      Guinness

TBH I haven't really shopped around to see how much difference there is in charges nowadays...

but as Geoff said the actual ownership of domain names is not a major cost...

Wherever you choose to use, the key point for anyone staring up is to look into a reasonable internet presence and professional looking company e-mail addresses..

As its not an impossible expense for a small business.. 

The old rule that first impressions are a significant factor when trying to win new customers is still true today,

and you can bet some of your potential competitors will already have a website with its associated company e-mail.

:Salute