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DaveS79

Acceptable jobs for Niceic domestic installer certification

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DaveS79

Afternoon chaps

 

I've been a spark 15 years mainly sub contracting. All types of work domestic, commercial, Lul stuff aswell. Am qualified tester and done testing for alot of firms. Have gotten more and tired of big sites and so thinking of setting up to do my own domestic stuff primarily. Conundrum I'm in is that to join Niceic I need to have some works available for inspection. Because I can't tout for work really without being NIC I'm considering what jobs I can do for self or friends/family that will be ok to show for assessment. One I am thinking of doing is just an addition to ring with spur off it for outside socket for garden. This seems like quite a silly little job to show them? It also from my understanding doesn't require EIC just a MWC although it is notifiable because is outside? Has anyone some advice for jobs to consider or assessment? Thanks

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Murdoch

Firstly there are other CPS than the NICEIC , like Elecsa, Stroma and Napit.

 

All can give you information on what they find acceptable for the assessment, plus exams, insurances, tools, calibration, books etc.

 

I think you will struggle to get a small job like you outline accepted. And it's not notifiable in England

 

My advice would be to speak to each of the schemes and see what they say.

 

A fuseboard change and a new circuit seem to be common installations people show

 

Hope this helps

Edited by Murdoch

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DaveS79
3 minutes ago, Murdoch said:

 

I think you will struggle to get a small job like you outline accepted. And it's not notifiable in England

 

 

Thanks Murdoch

The job is one that a family member wants doing. It's a socket on garden wall and one to her shed. My understanding was that if circuit extends outside it is notifiable am I wrong there then?

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Murdoch

Unless it's a new circuit or you are in Wales, that isn't notifiable

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DaveS79
43 minutes ago, Murdoch said:

Unless it's a new circuit or you are in Wales, that isn't notifiable

 

Cheers mate thanks 

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Doc Hudson

You don't have to be a member of any scheme to do notifiable work. There are other methods dealing directly with the LABC. These are outlined in Approved document P, although the notification charges are higher for non-registered contractors, if it is only for one or two jobs so as to provided a fully compliant installation to be assessed, it is not a prohibitive expense preventing work from being done by electricians who are qualified but not a scheme member. Exact costs will depend upon your LABC's charges.

 

Doc H.  

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DaveS79
1 hour ago, Doc Hudson said:

You don't have to be a member of any scheme to do notifiable work. There are other methods dealing directly with the LABC. These are outlined in Approved document P, although the notification charges are higher for non-registered contractors, if it is only for one or two jobs so as to provided a fully compliant installation to be assessed, it is not a prohibitive expense preventing work from being done by electricians who are qualified but not a scheme member. Exact costs will depend upon your LABC's charges.

 

Doc H.  

 

Thanks Doc. I have just ordered Part P to get better acquainted with it. I may consider doing a job and notifying it through LA just to get me off ground. Will look into charges for this. In long term though think will be best served by being with scheme should be less of hindrance to getting work hopefully 

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Murdoch
10 minutes ago, DaveS79 said:

 

Thanks Doc. I have just ordered Part P to get better acquainted with it. I may consider doing a job and notifying it through LA just to get me off ground. Will look into charges for this. In long term though think will be best served by being with scheme should be less of hindrance to getting work hopefully 

 

Part P is a free download ............

 

https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200135/approved_documents/82/part_p_-_electrical_safety

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DaveS79
Just now, Murdoch said:

 

That's a tenner could of been better spent 🙄 lol no drama always good to have physical copy. I'll leave it on table for accessor to see might help

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Andy™
27 minutes ago, DaveS79 said:

 

That's a tenner could of been better spent 🙄 lol no drama always good to have physical copy. I'll leave it on table for accessor to see might help

 

they would be checking you have it, but they dont expect a paid for book when you could download it for free and have either a PDF or a printed version

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binky

OK, until you are Part P registered, you will need to register jobs with Building Control, and your assessor will probably want to see paperwork to show legal compliance.

 

Nothing to say you can't use your own house for example works - CU change and test is always a good piece of work to show, so perhaps upgrading your CU to RCBOs is a possible. It is useful to have jobs in your own house to show as this means you and the assessor can mess about as much as you like testing ccts , safe isolation procedures, Zs (don't forget to disconnet main earth) etc etc.

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Andy™

and make sure you have a copy of BS7671:2008 amd1 2011 as you will need it to show compliane with part P 1.1

 

if you plan on working in wales youll also need your old 16th edition too...

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binky
Just now, Andy™ said:

 

they would be checking you have it, but they dont expect a paid for book when you could download it for free and have either a PDF or a printed version

 Good point Andy, as long as you can demonstarte access to doucments on-line, they will accept that these days, bar they like to see a hard copy of the on-site guide.

 

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Andy™
Just now, binky said:

 Good point Andy, as long as you can demonstarte access to doucments on-line, they will accept that these days, bar they like to see a hard copy of the on-site guide.

 

they can 'like to see a hard copy' of whatever they want, but since there isnt anything that specifically states that it must be a hard copy, then i couldnt care less what their opinion is

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kerching

They went 🦇 💩 crazy when I showed them a "copy. " as it was a photocopy of the Regs!

 

"you can't have that, it's a copy!!"

 

yes, I know, and that is what you asked for a "copy"....THIS IS a COPY

 

"well that's not what it means!"

 

i do not give a flying 💩 about "what it means." I am not a mind reader

I eventually pulled out a proper version....but he was fuming. It was worth it for the giggle

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Murdoch
11 minutes ago, kerching said:

They went 🦇 💩 crazy when I showed them a "copy. " as it was a photocopy of the Regs!

 

"you can't have that, it's a copy!!"

 

yes, I know, and that is what you asked for a "copy"....THIS IS a COPY

 

"well that's not what it means!"

 

i do not give a flying 💩 about "what it means." I am not a mind reader

I eventually pulled out a proper version....but he was fuming. It was worth it for the giggle

 

Wonder what they think of the tablet versions of BS 7671?

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kerching
1 hour ago, Murdoch said:

 

Wonder what they think of the tablet versions of BS 7671?

Oh I have that....they use it as well😀

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Blue Duck
1 hour ago, Murdoch said:

 

Wonder what they think of the tablet versions of BS 7671?

 

Is that the moody pdf floating about? :lol:

 

back OT, I used to like showing them outdoor stuff like new light circuits, sheds, sockets etc, shows them that you can dress cables, make off glands, use appropriate containment / accessories and also easier for testing.

A big DB provokes too many questions IMO.

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DaveS79
2 hours ago, binky said:

OK, until you are Part P registered, you will need to register jobs with Building Control, and your assessor will probably want to see paperwork to show legal compliance.

 

Nothing to say you can't use your own house for example works - CU change and test is always a good piece of work to show, so perhaps upgrading your CU to RCBOs is a possible. It is useful to have jobs in your own house to show as this means you and the assessor can mess about as much as you like testing ccts , safe isolation procedures, Zs (don't forget to disconnet main earth) etc etc.

I think you made up my mind for me binky seems like easiest and bedt bet. I can change the CU to new 18th ed one provide new test certs for it and easily demonstrate any testing he wants to see. Thanks mate

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Sharpend

It might be worth asking the scheme of choice before you go paying out BC fees, I say this as there used to be a time frame with which a job should be registered for part p, so you may well be able to do a job and register it once scam has accepted your membership?? Don’t know if this has changed as out of that particular loop these days. 

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DaveS79
8 minutes ago, Sharpend said:

It might be worth asking the scheme of choice before you go paying out BC fees, I say this as there used to be a time frame with which a job should be registered for part p, so you may well be able to do a job and register it once scam has accepted your membership?? Don’t know if this has changed as out of that particular loop these days. 

Sharpend thanks for heads up. I phoned them today what they said was that they don't police notification so looks like it would be entirely up to me to notify. I would of course but ideally like you say can just do the job in my home ie the CU change get approved and then notify the job through them

Edited by DaveS79

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Andy™
Just now, DaveS79 said:

Sharpend thanks for heads up. I phoned them today what they said was that they don't police notification so looks like it would be entirely up to me to notify. I would of cause but ideally like you say can just do the job in my home ie the CU change get approved and then notify the job through them

 

technically, you should be getting LABC involved before the works starts because youre not registered. in reality, just carry on & notify once youve passed

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binky
4 minutes ago, DaveS79 said:

Sharpend thanks for heads up. I phoned them today what they said was that they don't police notification so looks like it would be entirely up to me to notify. I would of course but ideally like you say can just do the job in my home ie the CU change get approved and then notify the job through them

in that case save the money and notify after scheme enrolment.  :^O They tend to be more interested in the cert numbers matching reality, calibration control of test gear and being able to demonstrate safe working procedures. 

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SPECIAL LOCATION
On 10/09/2019 at 12:33, Murdoch said:

Firstly there are other CPS than the NICEIC , like Elecsa, Stroma and Napit.

 

All can give you information on what they find acceptable for the assessment, plus exams, insurances, tools, calibration, books etc.

 

I think you will struggle to get a small job like you outline accepted. And it's not notifiable in England

 

My advice would be to speak to each of the schemes and see what they say.

 

A fuseboard change and a new circuit seem to be common installations people show

 

Hope this helps

 

+1 reckon I agree with pretty much all of this...  :Salute

 

But I would also add...

 

Ask all of your "non-electrical" friends family, cousins, mates down the pub.. etc.. etc...

 

if any of them are aware of any names of the Electrical competent persons schemes....

 

It will give you a random, non-scientific straw-poll of how many members of Joe-public may have actually heard of NICEC/ELECSA/STROMA/NAPIT...etc..

 

Irrespective of cost, it is probably worth going with the name that you think more people know about...

 

Paying cheap for a relatively unknown brand may be less economically worth while than paying a bit more for a brand that may give you a bit more clout with public image.

 

Guinness   

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DaveS79
10 hours ago, SPECIAL LOCATION said:

 

+1 reckon I agree with pretty much all of this...  :Salute

 

But I would also add...

 

Ask all of your "non-electrical" friends family, cousins, mates down the pub.. etc.. etc...

 

if any of them are aware of any names of the Electrical competent persons schemes....

 

It will give you a random, non-scientific straw-poll of how many members of Joe-public may have actually heard of NICEC/ELECSA/STROMA/NAPIT...etc..

 

Irrespective of cost, it is probably worth going with the name that you think more people know about...

 

Paying cheap for a relatively unknown brand may be less economically worth while than paying a bit more for a brand that may give you a bit more clout with public image.

 

Guinness   

 

Thanks for input speciallocation. Your thinking is similar to mine. Unfortunately it seems like most people better acquainted with just NIC. Whenever I have spoke to builders in past or elsewhere for possibility of work it is NIC they have asked if have. Although begrudge paying bit extra it seems like better sell when touting for work. Plus they do have that 5 year thingy insurance thingy for cover repair of work/aswell as my own PL insurance of course so I suppose it all helps sell my work

Edited by DaveS79

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