Advice Sought on Power Loss to Sockets

Hi,

I'm afraid I know little to nothing about electrical things, but basically, I unscrewed a number of plug sockets in my house prior to decorating, and everything was fine. Then the other day after I finished the painting, I turned the main trip-switch off while screwed the sockets back into their boxes and when I turned the main trip switch back on, discovered I now have no power to any sockets in the house.

The light swicthes in the house are working fine, and all of the trip switches on the main box are set in the correct positions - 'up' including the one labelled 'sockets' and nothing is tripping when I put the main switch on. But as I say, no power to any socket in the house.

I went back along the four sockets I had reaffixed to see if any wires had been dislodged and they all look fine.

I don't know if this is relevant but the only other thing to mention is that on the main trip-switch box by the entrance door that I'm talking about, among the row of standard blocks with switches, there is a block that has a lever with a button above it. The lever sits naturally in the one o'clock position and pulls down to the five o'clock position. When I pull that lever down and hold it there, the power to the sockets comes on. The lever seems to be sprung loaded so if I let go it just springs back to its up - one o'clock position., and the sockets lose power again. The button above it doesn't seem to do anything.

Any advice as to the likely cause and remedy of this situation would be much appreciated.

Thanks

The lever thing you are talking about is the RCD.  If that is tripping you have a fault on one of the circuits that it feeds, which may or may not be the socket circuit you have been working on.

Check the sockets you have worked on VERY carefully to make sure no wires are pinched as you screw them back.

Don't discount coincidence. Unplug EVERYTHING in the house and see if it will reset.  If it does then plug items back one by one until you find what makes it trip.

Of course you could just call an electrician who has the test gear to actually make measurements to see what is wrong and will fix it a damn site quicker.

ProDave said:

The lever thing you are talking about is the RCD.  If that is tripping you have a fault on one of the circuits that it feeds, which may or may not be the socket circuit you have been working on.

Check the sockets you have worked on VERY carefully to make sure no wires are pinched as you screw them back.

Don't discount coincidence. Unplug EVERYTHING in the house and see if it will reset.  If it does then plug items back one by one until you find what makes it trip.

Of course you could just call an electrician who has the test gear to actually make measurements to see what is wrong and will fix it a damn site quicker.

Click to expand...

Hi Dave,

Thanks for the prompt reply.

Good to know that lever is called and RCD.

I don't know if it's tripping as such, because it doesn't seem to click to another position (whether the main swtich is on or off) and then trip per se, when I turn the main switch on.  Is that what it's supposed to do ... trip?   Because as I say it's sprung  and only seems to move downwards if I pull it, and then doesn't stay there, regardless if main tripswitch is on or off.

Perhaps I'll double check that when I'm back over there on Wednesday, (it's a place I'm renovating).

The only other thing (apart from the hoover and radio i was testing with) that's plugged in, in the whole house is a kettle, but I will double check that too.

Thanks again.

If the RCD is an MK, it needs to be gently pulled down before you can reset it to the up position

if it won’t reset, that suggests you have a fault that needs fixing

Murdoch said:

If the RCD is an MK, it needs to be gently pulled down before you can reset it to the up position

if it won’t reset, that suggests you have a fault that needs fixing

Click to expand...

Ok, thanks.

Although as I say it automatically springs back to the up position. That is the only position it stays in unless I am physically holding it in a down position.

It's more of a sprung loaded lever as opposed to the normal trip switch design of everything else on that box. And with a button above it that appears to do nothing ...

Can you say briefly what an MK is?

Maybe I'll take a photo when I'm back over and post it.

At this stage I'm feeling the kettle needs checking ...

MK is the make of the RCD if I'm correct .......... if you think its the kettle, try it at home (if you have rcd protection at home) and see what happens

There are other RCD's that need the same "operation" to reset - Memera I think is one

Ok, I ckecked all the sockets I was working on very carefully, even took the wires out and rewired thm just in case but still no joy. Tried the kettle as well to no avail.

I since noticed the power to the garage works, so it's just the sockets in the house that have no power.

What's weird is, nothing is actually tripping.

I've attached a photo below of my box ... as I say, if I pull that RCD lever down the power comes on, but as soon as I let go it springs back up into it's one 'oclock position there and power goes dead.

As we have said before, it is either a faulty RCD, or you have a wiring fault causing it to trip immediately.

You need an electrician to do some testing.

If you still resist that, you could replace the RCD https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Contactum-RCD-2-Pole-80A-230V/333319499493?hash=item4d9b63eee5:g:RJwAAOSwUbZdcULa

But if that still trips it would just prove you have a wiring fault and still need that electrician.

One more test, before giving up on remote diagnosis.  Turn the main switch off.  Will the RCD then reset and stay reset with the main switch off?  If it will, does it trip when you turn the main switch back on again?

RoryL said:

Ok, I ckecked all the sockets I was working on very carefully, even took the wires out and rewired thm just in case but still no joy. Tried the kettle as well to no avail.

I since noticed the power to the garage works, so it's just the sockets in the house that have no power.

What's weird is, nothing is actually tripping.

I've attached a photo below of my box ... as I say, if I pull that RCD lever down the power comes on, but as soon as I let go it springs back up into it's one 'oclock position there and power goes dead.

Click to expand...

From what I gather from your description there has so far been no actual proper testing of any wiring or the RCD.  Your perception of nothing tripping is incorrect, as the RCD is tripping, hence you have no power. The individual fuses can only detect overload, which is too much electricity that could damage cables etc.  But the RCD detects leakage, that is electricity flowing where it shouldn't. To try and illustrate: consider a washing line loaded full of clothes, imagine you could put so many clothes on, that the line would break. Compared to one item of clothes falling off the line due to wind or faulty peg.  I guess you're looking a snapped washing line, (fuse tripped), Whereas symptoms you describe suggest something has fallen off the line maybe just one sock or a flannel, something very small. RCD's detect very small amounts of electricity leaking to protect you from electric shock.

I think you really need someone with appropriate test equipment to verify the integrity of the wiring and the functionality of the RCD. You cannot do this by just re-screwing wires into terminals. The quickest and safest option is adopting the correct test methods defined within BS761 wiring regulations. Your random methods prove very little about the safety of the circuit(s) involved.  You may or may not get something working, but the objective is to prove it will fail safe so as not to kill anyone using the installation in the event of a fault. Electricity can kill a healthy adult in less than half a second. the RCD is there to provide this protection. Only dabble with it if you are 100% sure you know what you are doing and have access to suitable tools and testers.  

Where about are you? there may be a forum member who could assist you.

Doc H.

ProDave said:

As we have said before, it is either a faulty RCD, or you have a wiring fault causing it to trip immediately.

You need an electrician to do some testing.

If you still resist that, you could replace the RCD https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Contactum-RCD-2-Pole-80A-230V/333319499493?hash=item4d9b63eee5:g:RJwAAOSwUbZdcULa

But if that still trips it would just prove you have a wiring fault and still need that electrician.

One more test, before giving up on remote diagnosis.  Turn the main switch off.  Will the RCD then reset and stay reset with the main switch off?  If it will, does it trip when you turn the main switch back on again?

Click to expand...

Hi,

Yes, I wouldn't get into replacing anything, and would get a sparky in. I was just trying to ascertain if it was something simple before taking that step.

When you ask if the main RCD will reset and stay with power off, I don't know what position it is supposed to be set in if all was well. Is it supposed to be 'down' and trips up when there is a fault?? ... perhaps you could clarify.

What I can say is the description I have given (off it feeling sprung when I pull it down and going back to it's one o'clock position when I release it) is the same whether the main switch is on or off. No change either way.

I have noticed that when I push and hold that button above the lever, it seems to relase the spring mechanism and the lever goes down a little further than usual. But still srings back up when I'm not holding anything down. Same for main switch on or off.

Thanks again

Doc Hudson said:

From what I gather from your description there has so far been no actual proper testing of any wiring or the RCD.  Your perception of nothing tripping is incorrect, as the RCD is tripping, hence you have no power. The individual fuses can only detect overload, which is too much electricity that could damage cables etc.  But the RCD detects leakage, that is electricity flowing where it shouldn't. To try and illustrate: consider a washing line loaded full of clothes, imagine you could put so many clothes on, that the line would break. Compared to one item of clothes falling off the line due to wind or faulty peg.  I guess you're looking a snapped washing line, (fuse tripped), Whereas symptoms you describe suggest something has fallen off the line maybe just one sock or a flannel, something very small. RCD's detect very small amounts of electricity leaking to protect you from electric shock.

I think you really need someone with appropriate test equipment to verify the integrity of the wiring and the functionality of the RCD. You cannot do this by just re-screwing wires into terminals. The quickest and safest option is adopting the correct test methods defined within BS761 wiring regulations. Your random methods prove very little about the safety of the circuit(s) involved.  You may or may not get something working, but the objective is to prove it will fail safe so as not to kill anyone using the installation in the event of a fault. Electricity can kill a healthy adult in less than half a second. the RCD is there to provide this protection. Only dabble with it if you are 100% sure you know what you are doing and have access to suitable tools and testers.  

Where about are you? there may be a forum member who could assist you.

Doc H.

Click to expand...

Thank you for the detailed response, and yes it sounds like I need a pro at this stage.

I am based in Wickford Essex, if there is anyone nearby that information would be great!

Thanks again.

ProDave said:

As we have said before, it is either a faulty RCD, or you have a wiring fault causing it to trip immediately.

You need an electrician to do some testing.

If you still resist that, you could replace the RCD https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Contactum-RCD-2-Pole-80A-230V/333319499493?hash=item4d9b63eee5:g:RJwAAOSwUbZdcULa

But if that still trips it would just prove you have a wiring fault and still need that electrician.

One more test, before giving up on remote diagnosis.  Turn the main switch off.  Will the RCD then reset and stay reset with the main switch off?  If it will, does it trip when you turn the main switch back on again?

Click to expand...

Ok, just to let you know that I tried your "one more test" and it solved the problem. It was a simple matter of resetting the RCD switch to the 'down' position by pressing the button in while I did that, and with the main power switch off.

Then when I switched the main power back on ... voila, sockets working and no tripping.

This is why I was reluctant to call someone out tsraight away , in case it turned out to be something that simple. I'd never even heard of an RCD until this week.

Anyway, I hugely appreciate all you guys time and advice. Props.