Dealing with electricity suppliers.

So I have a consumer unit to change that as per BS7671 and because it has a 100amp fuse needs 25mm tails.  Currently they are 16mm.   Tried to get the supplier to fit an isolator and upgrade the tails but they want silly money.  So ok I know were not supposed to and its been hammered out a million times before about pulling fuses but frankly I would rather pull the fuse as I think the risks of pulling the fuse is way smaller than trying to work on tails live and given they dont provide us with any other means of isolation and they want to charge so much I would never win any work im ok with that (I always just fit an isolator while the fuse is out then reinsert the fuse).

My question is when it comes to the meter most of the digital meters have one cover that has a seal that covers both the tails from the head and tails going to the consumer side..  Obviously the consumer side tails are the customers responsibility so how do they expect us to change the tails in the meter without cutting the seal?  What do you guys do?

I normally get the supplier to upgrade their tails from the head to the meter and at the same time I leave an isolator and some 25mm tails for them to fit an isolator, give the guy £20 cash to fit while he is there.  Yorkshire energy now want £126 just to change their tails from 16mm to 25mm.  I did point out to them that its a safety issue and those cables are their responsibility so as far as I am concerned if they don't want to upgrade them then given I have told them they need upgrading if they decide not to then they are liable not me.

But the question still then remains how do you change the customer meter tails from 16mm to 25mm when the meter is sealed?  Think I might have to buy some seals from the seal fairys.

Fit your new 25mm tails, over length henley blocked to their 16mm tails.

Report is as a dangerous condition, substandard tails.

ProDave said:

Fit your new 25mm tails, over length henley blocked to their 16mm tails.

Report is as a dangerous condition, substandard tails.

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Who to? and would they be bothered?

Murdoch said:

Who to? and would they be bothered?

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To the DNO via the energy supplier.

ProDave said:

To the DNO via the energy supplier.

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Hum ............ like that's going make anything happen

In the real world there are almost no homes pulling more that 80 amps, so 25 mm tails are hardly necessary.

OP - are you 100% sure the DNO fuse is 100A - it could be 80 or 60 amps ..............

Murdoch said:

Hum ............ like that's going make anything happen

In the real world there are almost no homes pulling more that 80 amps, so 25 mm tails are hardly necessary.

OP - are you 100% sure the DNO fuse is 100A - it could be 80 or 60 amps ..............

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Nah its defo 100A..  I mean its been 16mm for donkeys of years but as im adding extra circuits for an outbuilding I would rather follow BS7671 as far as possible and upgrade the tails to 25mm...  I now cutting seals for the cutout fuse is done by most electricians and overlooked.  However im not so sure about cutting seals on the meter, supplier says they will not give me permission to cut the seals but want to charge to change even their tails which seems a bit crazy.

catdog1121 said:

Nah its defo 100A..  I mean its been 16mm for donkeys of years but as im adding extra circuits for an outbuilding I would rather follow BS7671 as far as possible and upgrade the tails to 25mm...  I now cutting seals for the cutout fuse is done by most electricians and overlooked.  However im not so sure about cutting seals on the meter, supplier says they will not give me permission to cut the seals but want to charge to change even their tails which seems a bit crazy.

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So you’ve pulled the fuse 

catdog1121 said:

Nah its defo 100A..  I mean its been 16mm for donkeys of years but as im adding extra circuits for an outbuilding I would rather follow BS7671 as far as possible and upgrade the tails to 25mm...  I now cutting seals for the cutout fuse is done by most electricians and overlooked.  However im not so sure about cutting seals on the meter, supplier says they will not give me permission to cut the seals but want to charge to change even their tails which seems a bit crazy.

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If this works needs doing surely it’s chargeable to the customer .....

Murdoch said:

So you’ve pulled the fuse 

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No electrician would ever do that...  I have this really rare ability where I can just turn power off without any isolator so I can change a consumer unit while not live...  Meters are a different matter, some meters have the tails coming from the head sealed and the tails going to the consumer unit not sealed so that an electrician can maintain those tails...   There is also rumours of tamper alerts on some meters so wont touch them.

I think ProDave's response is a good one, just cut the tails, put into henley blocks or an isolator and then call the supplier and tell them of the substandard tails, its up to them to replace them..  This is going to be more and more a problem when fitting EV charge points as 100A fuses will need to be more common place.

Murdoch said:

If this works needs doing surely it’s chargeable to the customer .....

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Yes but if I charged the customer the sometimes £200 to get an isolator fitted to replace a consumer unit I would never get any work as there are 50 other blokes behind me that will pull the fuse negating that cost...  Who will the customer choose?  Come on be realistic.  If its British gas (£40) or Npower (free) then yeah no brainer.

catdog1121 said:

No electrician would ever do that...  I have this really rare ability where I can just turn power off without any isolator so I can change a consumer unit while not live...  Meters are a different matter, some meters have the tails coming from the head sealed and the tails going to the consumer unit not sealed so that an electrician can maintain those tails...   There is also rumours of tamper alerts on some meters so wont touch them.

I think ProDave's response is a good one, just cut the tails, put into henley blocks or an isolator and then call the supplier and tell them of the substandard tails, its up to them to replace them..  This is going to be more and more a problem when fitting EV charge points as 100A fuses will need to be more common place.

Yes but if I charged the customer the sometimes £200 to get an isolator fitted to replace a consumer unit I would never get any work as there are 50 other blokes behind me that will pull the fuse negating that cost...  Who will the customer choose?  Come on be realistic.  If its British gas (£40) or Npower (free) then yeah no brainer.

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Are you a scheme member?

Murdoch said:

Are you a scheme member?

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Of a CPS yes...  Napit.

catdog1121 said:

Of a CPS yes...  Napit.

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Well crack on and pull the fuse ....

OK, so the fuse carrier says 100A, but in my area it will be fitted with 60A or 80A as standard.

I used to follow the law to the letter, that was until the meter guy was 3 days late turning up - fortunately I had 3 days of work on the job. Since then the seal fairy has ruled! I either fit henleys and work live, or inspect the main fuse.... On 2 occasions I have found  a bit of wire and no fuse, plus the EAWR says we should minimise risk by not working live, so main fuse gets pulled, inspected and resealed  by someone I've never met!!! 

As for meters, silly sods should fit meters with split covers, but they don't , so to access the customers tails, seal fairy has to appear. It is our legal right/ responsibility to access the customers property. Meter tails between main fuse and meter are not our concern.

After 300 yrs in the trade I came across one , only ,  meter with a DP switch that isolated the outgoing tails ,  Siemens . 

Behold this rare  icon of German know-how and common sense . 

How simple was it to solve what is  an age old problem in this country  ?  

Evans Electric said:

After 300 yrs in the trade I came across one , only ,  meter with a DP switch that isolated the outgoing tails ,  Siemens . 

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300 years?  I have just been double checking the forum enrolment archives, which suggest you are still only 298 years in the trade. Please remember that the forum prides itself on accuracy, honesty and friendly atmosphere. I do hope you are not trying to pull the wool over the eyes of younger, easily confused members?  Sprocketflup and Binky will be totally confused if you don't keep your posts accurate!  

Doc H.

Those meters that Deke posted with a built in isolator are common up here, SSE have been fitting them for a long time.

Sadly now I see them being replaced with those useless smart meter things that have no isolator, and are of NO benefit to the customer (yet they continue to agree to have them fitted because someone has lied to them, that they will save money) .  Progress  headbang

ProDave said:

Those meters that Deke posted with a built in isolator are common up here, SSE have been fitting them for a long time.

Sadly now I see them being replaced with those useless smart meter things that have no isolator, and are of NO benefit to the customer (yet they continue to agree to have them fitted because someone has lied to them, that they will save money) .  Progress  headbang

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Of course they save money.  It says so on the TV. Even got school kids thanking us for fitting them so it must be good. Surely they wouldn't lie to us would they?

I am  constantly called/emailed to confirm when I want my appointment to have mine fitted!  They don't like it when I say last week would be good OR better still when I ask how it will save me money 

Doc Hudson said:

 Sprocketflup and Binky will be totally confused if you don't keep your posts accurate!  

Doc H.

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I don't need Deke to confuse me these days.... :slap

Doc Hudson said:

300 years?  I have just been double checking the forum enrolment archives, which suggest you are still only 298 years in the trade. Please remember that the forum prides itself on accuracy, honesty and friendly atmosphere. I do hope you are not trying to pull the wool over the eyes of younger, easily confused members?  Sprocketflup and Binky will be totally confused if you don't keep your posts accurate!  

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Only two years enrolled on the Forum !!!!!    I'll have you know its more like  12 years  ...OMG!!!!    12 years , I'm almost a founder member  I'll have you know .

I served at the throne of the Welsh Wizard  I did  , when Owen Glendower was just a boyo  .      So yes  300 years in the trade  but only 12 on the Forum .   Yes  George 1  was king as I remember   , he had trouble with the press like today ,  Paparattzi  following him everywhere , drawing pictures of him  very quickly .  

Earliest member I know of is Steps but he doesn't post now , so...:-  

Looks like The Badger is the earliest posting member ..

1)  Badger 

2)    KME

3)   Binky

4)   NOZ

5)   Evans Electric

Then all you newbies 

Unless you know better !!!

Ah yes Deke, I believe you are indeed a PF Lead as opposed to I whom is a PF Lag. 
 

in my defence: school reports always said I lagged behind so I am consistent!