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DaveS79

EICR coding.....go easy

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DaveS79

Just interested to know how others would approach this. Done EICR today am coding it C2 as ring isn't complete and another 2.5 radial supplying sockets is spured out of this same 30amp BS1361 fuse. Other observations C3 recommendations is due to lack of additional protection to bathroom circuits (lighting, shower) and flat sockets. He seems to be bit of a penny pincher and although will strongly advise he could do with board change. One possibility i see of bringing it upto to C3 is fault finding on ring and connecting the other cable into a unused 15amp fuse. Question is, is this advisable as I know my responsibilitys as practicing spark is to install to current regs. But as this is an existing installation could a case be made for it. Cheers

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NozSpark

If I ever question myself with any coding during an EICR I always refer back to the ESC Best Practice Guide 4

https://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org.uk/media/2149/bpg4-1.pdf

 

It sounds like you maybe should be giving it a C2 for lack of RCD protection

 

Then quote for any remedial works if asked to (just hourly rate for anything thats FI)... from then on it's up to them as to how they want to proceed

 

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Evans Electric

All you do is report on what you find .     

44 minutes ago, DaveS79 said:

another 2.5 radial supplying sockets is spured out of this same 30amp BS1361 fuse.

Did you mean a 3036  fuse ?    . 

You carry out the EICR  to the latest Regs  so in most cases there,s stuff that doesn't comply with , in this case , the 18th edition .    However it was the  Bees- Knees in it's day so in my opinion  you code it as needing improvement .  

What you are not is a constable in the Electric Police Force,  just give 'em the report , they are in charge of the installation , its up them whether they act upon it .  

 

Edited by Evans Electric

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Murdoch

The best approach to EICR's is do job, submit report and invoice - get paid.

 

If they ask you to quote for remedials - all well and good, but if you don't hear from the customer again after issuing a "not satisfactory" report - don't lose any sleep over it.

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DaveS79
7 hours ago, NozSpark said:

If I ever question myself with any coding during an EICR I always refer back to the ESC Best Practice Guide 4

https://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org.uk/media/2149/bpg4-1.pdf

 

It sounds like you maybe should be giving it a C2 for lack of RCD protection

 

Then quote for any remedial works if asked to (just hourly rate for anything thats FI)... from then on it's up to them as to how they want to proceed

 

Cheers Nospark. Will defo be a C2. Thanks for link I find Napits codebreakers decent guide as well

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DaveS79
7 hours ago, Evans Electric said:

All you do is report on what you find .     

Did you mean a 3036  fuse ?    . 

You carry out the EICR  to the latest Regs  so in most cases there,s stuff that doesn't comply with , in this case , the 18th edition .    However it was the  Bees- Knees in it's day so in my opinion  you code it as needing improvement .  

What you are not is a constable in the Electric Police Force,  just give 'em the report , they are in charge of the installation , its up them whether they act upon it .  

 

Cheers Evans. No they are BS1361 cartridge fuses. Hear you about considering regs was installed to, more in consideration to lack of rcd protection. Am right in coding both C2 for incomplete ring and 2.5 on 30amp?

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DaveS79
Just now, Murdoch said:

The best approach to EICR's is do job, submit report and invoice - get paid.

 

If they ask you to quote for remedials - all well and good, but if you don't hear from the customer again after issuing a "not satisfactory" report - don't lose any sleep over it.

Defo mate as policy I don't issue report till after payment. 

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Murdoch
Just now, DaveS79 said:

Cheers Evans. No they are BS1361 cartridge fuses. Hear you about considering regs was installed to, more in consideration to lack of rcd protection. Am right in coding both C2 for incomplete ring and 2.5 on 30amp?

 

Yes.

 

Have you downloaded and read the Best Practice Guide No 4? 

 

I would recommend you do that AND point customers at it to if they ask. Its the only publication I'm aware of that which gives sensible examples of coding (the NAPIT guide isn't as clear nor is freely accessible for customers).

Just now, DaveS79 said:

Defo mate as policy I don't issue report till after payment. 

 

Not sure you can do that unless its stated on your quote / estimate

 

The ONLY time I did that, I didn't trust the client to pay me.

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DaveS79
Just now, Murdoch said:

 

Yes.

 

Have you downloaded and read the Best Practice Guide No 4? 

 

I would recommend you do that AND point customers at it to if they ask. Its the only publication I'm aware of that which gives sensible examples of coding (the NAPIT guide isn't as clear nor is freely accessible for customers).

To be honest as yet I have been referring to codebreakers. Will give it a good read and yeah sounds like will be helpful in giving customers reference point.

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Evans Electric

Just summing up on EICR,s  .

We are now looking at  big  differences between installations  from  :--

1)  The old wooden boards with glass fronts , rubber cable & Death Wish fuses   ,   earthing connected to the  lead water pipe ,  not many left now . 

2)  The typical 1960,s    6way Wylex  rewirables   Red & Black cable , no bonding . Often no incoming earth.  

3)   The '70s  early MCBs , 6mm bonding . 

4)   RCDs  to outside plugs only & showers  & 10mm bonding. 

5)   Split - load boards with RCD to all plugs / shower only .

6)    Dual RCD    &  RCBO  boards to cover buried cable etc .  basically everything

7)    18th stuff with all the add - ons .  

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Murdoch
23 minutes ago, Evans Electric said:

Just summing up on EICR,s  .

We are now looking at  big  differences between installations  from  :--

1)  The old wooden boards with glass fronts , rubber cable & Death Wish fuses   ,   earthing connected to the  lead water pipe ,  not many left now . 

2)  The typical 1960,s    6way Wylex  rewirables   Red & Black cable , no bonding . Often no incoming earth.  

3)   The '70s  early MCBs , 6mm bonding . 

4)   RCDs  to outside plugs only & showers  & 10mm bonding. 

5)   Split - load boards with RCD to all plugs / shower only .

6)    Dual RCD    &  RCBO  boards to cover buried cable etc .  basically everything

7)    18th stuff with all the add - ons .  

 

8. Lighting circuits without cpcs 

 

 

So in summary it's like stepping on egg shells. Sure there are people going around coding against the 18th edition but that would could easily get unsatisfactory on about 90% of all installations.

 

Then there are interpretations of the regs when changing fuseboards .... Do you refuse a board change if the lights don't have a cpc or take it on and RCD everything which WILL make the installation safer.

 

You have to remember we are not the electrical police and our duty is to make installations safer.

 

Let the debate continue

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Doc Hudson

 

3 minutes ago, Murdoch said:

You have to remember we are not the electrical police and our duty is to make installations safer.

 

 

I would reword that a bit and say 'our duty is to ensure all work we are involved in will 'Fail-Safe'.  With all things electrical, (Installation, additions & alterations, fault finding or inspection & testing), its possible to forget the fundamental principal to protect people, property and livestock. Especially with EICR,s you can get sucked into the black hole of complying with the current edition of BS7671.  When deciding if there is an immediate or potential danger, consider if you have gathered enough evidence from your inspection and testing, to confirm that the circuits have suitable protective devices to meet the disconnection times required by BS7671.  If its a brand new install, or inspecting a old job, providing the power can be disconnected fast enough in the event of a fault, then you will not be endangering people, property or livestock. i.e. if something is designed and tested to fail safe, there can be no immediate danger as it fails safe! 

 

Doc H

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Evans Electric
2 hours ago, Murdoch said:

8. Lighting circuits without cpcs 

Nice one , forgot those. 

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Murdoch
1 hour ago, Evans Electric said:

Nice one , forgot those. 

 

I keep finding them ....

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Evans Electric

My house for one !  

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Andy™
On 23/01/2020 at 19:27, Evans Electric said:

My house for one !  

bet its got fused neutrals too

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ProDave

Found s new one today.

 

2 way switching.  Spark did not have any 3core & earth  So a 2core & earth and a single core (conduit cable) taped to the side of it for it's entire length.

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roys

Better than using the earth as a strapper I suppose.

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Andy™
10 hours ago, ProDave said:

Found s new one today.

 

2 way switching.  Spark did not have any 3core & earth  So a 2core & earth and a single core (conduit cable) taped to the side of it for it's entire length.

 

long time ago but i did find some home made T&E. 3x singles in parcel tape

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