EV Chargers ...an interesting question raised yesterday.

A long standing customer needs to pave the frontage of his house to allow more parking .     Large frontage on a busy road  , normally two vehicles , often three  , plus kids being collected from music lessons  , usually between  4.00 & 6.00 pm .

He contacted me because we had to fit about six  earth rods in the front garden  some years ago  as the DNO earthing failed and PME was refused. 

With the new block paving he,s asking for  the earthing to be re- done ...... lighting ...and    THREE  yes THREE   EV chargers .   

Now I'm thinking , as far as I know , a 30A  supply is needed  and three cars  equals  90A  .  

I always thought of these things being on a scale of one per house  but of course this may not be the case.    Is this unusual ?    Supply fuse is 80A   Just checked my records for that job , see photo.     

If he wants 3 chargers, tell him to get a quote from the DNO to upgrade to 3 phase.

Do tell us the answer or their cost.

In spite of what people say, the electricity network I do not believe will be able to cope with every house having an EV charger. And as you rightly point out most houses have more than one car so may well need more than one EV charger.

Evans Electric said:

He contacted me because we had to fit about six  earth rods in the front garden  some years ago  as the DNO earthing failed and PME was refused. 

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if DNO provide an earth then ESQCR says it must be maintained, so it would have been their problem to fix it. not you to install rods

as for the chargers, they could be 16a. so 48a total. of they could be 63a each... all depends how fast you want to charge it

installed some for a company a while back. they wanted 16a chargers that would take most of the day to charge. their reasoning being once they go to work, the car will be there all day so plenty time to charge. they now want 3 phase fast chargers, so the site will now be running close to its max capacity for a hour or 2 then normal load the rest of the day...

ProDave said:

If he wants 3 chargers, tell him to get a quote from the DNO to upgrade to 3 phase.

Do tell us the answer or their cost.

In spite of what people say, the electricity network I do not believe will be able to cope with every house having an EV charger. And as you rightly point out most houses have more than one car so may well need more than one EV charger.

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and most houses dont have a drive or off road parking...

Andy™ said:

if DNO provide an earth then ESQCR says it must be maintained, so it would have been their problem to fix it. not you to install rods

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We had all this 25 yrs  ago  Andy  , before they moved in we rewired and requested an earth terminal  .  They fitted the strap as you see  but  the Ze  was high  so we requested a PME  , as you say , under the ESQCR s   .   

( They had NOT in fact supplied an earth terminal, thinking back,  there was something twisted onto the lead water water supply which was becoming Plastic anyway)  

They cannot supply PME  in that area so just backed  off .     I think this was before the present  DNO  who are WP  , it used to be Central Networks  .    That whole part of Sutton Coldfield has an earthing problem due to cast joint boxes breaking down I believe .  

He could try another request I suppose , he hates  our earth boxes in his front garden .  ( Something about the soil there , we had to put 6 in  )  

Evans Electric said:

due to cast joint boxes breaking down I believe .  

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We get that a lot here.....tri-furcating boxes.  Salt air and mainly sand and a bit of soil destroys them

often the fix is to link the neutral to the sheath and make it TNCS rather than dig up the road and fix the actual problem

Andy™ said:

often the fix is to link the neutral to the sheath and make it TNCS rather than dig up the road and fix the actual problem

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Theres some other problem Andy ,  they won't consider PME  .    

Just on the point of EV chargers, listening to a debate on radio the other day about switching to EV’s and some ‘expert’ came on and replied to the question of infrastructure coping with, they will be designed to only switch on during off peak times, now forgive me but what happens when you’ve had a day out get home, car is low on battery, off peak hasn’t arrived yet when suddenly there’s an emergency whereby you’ve got to take a Neighbour/relative to hospital? 
 

nevermind the simultaneous use of all these chargers switching on during what was low peak?? 
 

but obviously the powers that be, the greater minds, must know something we don’t? 

Sharpend said:

but obviously the powers that be, the greater minds, must know something we don’t? 

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More likely not too good at arithmetic, or perhaps haven't even looked at the numbers involved.

Geoff1946 said:

More likely not too good at arithmetic, or perhaps haven't even looked at the numbers involved.

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I suspect they mistook Arthritis for arithmetic and believed because the doctor said they had it they were all geniuses! 

Just wait until your car/van has been on charge all night and you wake up to go to work and it’s not got enough charge to get you there because it’s been emptied by the network early in the morning because they had an issue, and used your car charge to top up the network, thus leaving you stuck in the house with a flat battery.

And, YES that is a potentially real scenario, why do you think they want smart meters and smart charge points.

Sidewinder said:

And, YES that is a potentially real scenario, why do you think they want smart meters and smart charge points.

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So, if you daily mileage dependended on your EV you would be very careful, but if the rcd trips after you go to bed ?

the reality check is that most car journeys are under 10 miles so charging daily isn’t really needed.

Sharpend said:

but obviously the powers that be, the greater minds, must know something we don’t? 

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Hum, not sure I agree with that “with greater minds”

the people making these decisions live their metropolitan niches and simply haven’t a clue how most of us live ......

one thing for sure sure is that somebody, somewhere is planning big tax rises to fill the fuel tax big black hole ... but not letting on how or who will be paying it. I suspect paying per mile for road usage is on the cards

I suspect you are right, disguised as an encouragement to make us more green and conscious of the environment, perhaps they’ll employ a small Swedish girl to promote it? 

Sharpend said:

I suspect you are right, disguised as an encouragement to make us more green and conscious of the environment, perhaps they’ll employ a small Swedish girl to promote it? 

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Hum .... I’d love to know who is behind her ...... and it’s not just her parents

Murdoch said:

Hum .... I’d love to know who is behind her ...... and it’s not just her parents

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Soros or one of his foundations

Evans Electric said:

With the new block paving he,s asking for  the earthing to be re- done ...... lighting ...and    THREE  yes THREE   EV chargers .   

Now I'm thinking , as far as I know , a 30A  supply is needed  and three cars  equals  90A  .  

I always thought of these things being on a scale of one per house  but of course this may not be the case.    Is this unusual ?    Supply fuse is 80A   Just checked my records for that job

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It begs the question "can you apply any diversity to multiple EV charging" or is it that the powers that be haven't really thought about it yet

With rumours of having to seek permission to install EV charging points will this limit the number per household

Is EV charging the next Economy 7 load wise but on a larger scale and while EV's will add significant load to an aging DNO network the move to get rid of gas appliances in the home will only ramp up the pressure on the network. Beginning to wonder where HS2 is going to find it's electricity from as by the time that starts to run the existing network could be well beyond it' capacity

UNG said:

Beginning to wonder where HS2 is going to find it's electricity from as by the time that starts to run the existing network could be well beyond it' capacity

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solar panels on the roof of the trains. in winter (/ the other 364 days per year when its not sunny enough), there will be a hole in the floor. flintstone style train

1)   I foresee a smart charger "talking " to your smart meter  telling it that a car is being charged and a fuel tax will be added to charge times .  

Evans Electric said:

1)   I foresee a smart charger "talking " to your smart meter  telling it that a car is being charged and a fuel tax will be added to charge times .  

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probably a seperate meter too. units on that meter will have a tax of £1 per unit or something