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Murdoch

On the subject of EV's ...........

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Murdoch

2 articles spotted in yesterday's Times - no surprises in what has been written if you ask me!

 

Times 1.pdf

 

Times 2.pdf

 

Apologies if its hard to read

Edited by Murdoch

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binky

if charged at home they are supposed to cost about 2p per mile.

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Sharpend

The question is are we really that surprised? 
anything that is run by a privately owned business always costs more than it should, more than it needs. I wonder how much of that tariff goes to the national grid to improve infrastructure? 
 

 

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Sharpend



just as an aside, what happens in the event that you are stuck in traffic then you run out of juice do they have to lift the vehicle and transport to the nearest charging point? Or do these vehicles release the motors and freewheel so they can be towed? 

 

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Murdoch
2 hours ago, Sharpend said:



just as an aside, what happens in the event that you are stuck in traffic then you run out of juice do they have to lift the vehicle and transport to the nearest charging point? Or do these vehicles release the motors and freewheel so they can be towed? 

 

 

no idea - but you can't tow an automatic car - so the breakdown companies should have this in hand

 

2 hours ago, Sharpend said:

The question is are we really that surprised? 
anything that is run by a privately owned business always costs more than it should, more than it needs. I wonder how much of that tariff goes to the national grid to improve infrastructure? 
 

 

 

no idea - and when people use granny chargers (which they will) so I can't see how a different charging structure can work - unless granny chargers are banned ......... but that would be a daft move

 

so many questions, seemingly not many answers .......

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Doc Hudson
6 hours ago, Sharpend said:



just as an aside, what happens in the event that you are stuck in traffic then you run out of juice do they have to lift the vehicle and transport to the nearest charging point? Or do these vehicles release the motors and freewheel so they can be towed? 

 

 

There's a you tube video where six EV's were driven till the batteries were flat to compare real world range with quoted range. Also you find out what the vehicle does when the power has gone. Some you could still push, but one had its breaks locked on IIRC. 

 

Doc H. 

 

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Sharpend
9 hours ago, Murdoch said:

 

no idea - but you can't tow an automatic car - so the breakdown companies should have this in hand

 

so many questions, seemingly not many answers .......


you can tow an automatic providing you have the drivetrain wheels off the floor. 
but if as a MEWP or as Doc suggests the brakes are locked on or drive motors don’t release then the vehicle will have to be physically lifted onto a truck. 

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Murdoch
1 hour ago, Sharpend said:


you can tow an automatic providing you have the drive train wheels off the floor. 
but if as a MEWP or as Doc suggests the brakes are locked on or drive motors don’t release then the vehicle will have to be physically lifted onto a truck. 

 

yes - and

 

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Sharpend

I don’t know many breakdown trucks that actually lift a motor? 

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Murdoch
8 hours ago, Doc Hudson said:

 

There's a you tube video where six EV's were driven till the batteries were flat to compare real world range with quoted range. Also you find out what the vehicle does when the power has gone. Some you could still push, but one had its breaks locked on IIRC. 

 

Doc H. 

 

 

That's all well and good - but shouldn't they have told us the cost per mile too?

 

My "take away" is like all cars don't believe the performance / range!

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Andy™
On 17/02/2020 at 20:03, Sharpend said:

I don’t know many breakdown trucks that actually lift a motor? 

most have a dolly they can put under the wheels onto to drag it onto the body. failing that, you only need to move the braked wheels 250-300mm

On 17/02/2020 at 04:59, Sharpend said:



just as an aside, what happens in the event that you are stuck in traffic then you run out of juice do they have to lift the vehicle and transport to the nearest charging point? Or do these vehicles release the motors and freewheel so they can be towed? 

 

well if youre stuck in traffic you wont be moving so no real loss of battery capacity.

 

failing that, there are companies who drive around with a generator to charge the car. powered by diesel / petrol though, not fairy dust

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Andy™
On 17/02/2020 at 17:22, Sharpend said:


you can tow an automatic providing you have the drivetrain wheels off the floor. 
but if as a MEWP or as Doc suggests the brakes are locked on or drive motors don’t release then the vehicle will have to be physically lifted onto a truck. 

 

most MEWPS the brakes are designed to be released with no power / main battery. i.e a genie has a manual hydraulic pump to release them. others you disengage from the hubs. some have an extra (small) battery

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Sharpend
9 minutes ago, Andy™ said:

 

most MEWPS the brakes are designed to be released with no power / main battery. i.e a genie has a manual hydraulic pump to release them. others you disengage from the hubs. some have an extra (small) battery


 

yes some do and some don’t but either way it is a faff just to move a vehicle. 
 

actually do electric cars have a handbrake? 

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Andy™
Just now, Sharpend said:


 

yes some do and some don’t but either way it is a faff just to move a vehicle. 
 

actually do electric cars have a handbrake? 

might not be 'hand' brake as such, but something will be there

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Sharpend
15 minutes ago, Andy™ said:

most have a dolly they can put under the wheels onto to drag it onto the body. failing that, you only need to move the braked wheels 250-300mm

well if youre stuck in traffic you wont be moving so no real loss of battery capacity.

 

failing that, there are companies who drive around with a generator to charge the car. powered by diesel / petrol though, not fairy dust


is that the case if lights are on, the entertainment equip is in use, never mind the smart technology running all the time? Little maybe but over a prolonged period of stop start queuing? 
 

oh I like the idea of the diesel trucked generator to charge cars, if that ain’t the environmental white elephant what is? 

How do the batteries fair in cold weather? Are they susceptible to lose charge quicker like tool batteries? 
I would imagine that EV would be better in Snowy conditions due to better torque? 

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Andy™

stuff like that will be using power, but not much compared to moving the vehicle. .

 

power usage just a complete guess here  but...

 

headlight LED. say 30w each 60w

sidelights 1w each. 4w

radio er... 10? 15w? no idea. go with 20w

rest of electronics sitting doing nothing 40w

 

so 124w. most stuff like that will be 12v. so 10amps.

 

a tesla battery is 375v so there will be something to lower the voltage.  power from battery will be 0.4amps. it has a capacity of 220ah. so really, 550 hours on a good charge. thats almost 23 days. so yea, sitting in traffic not moving isnt going to use much battery power...

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Andy™
Just now, Sharpend said:


is that the case if lights are on, the entertainment equip is in use, never mind the smart technology running all the time? Little maybe but over a prolonged period of stop start queuing? 
 

oh I like the idea of the diesel trucked generator to charge cars, if that ain’t the environmental white elephant what is? 

 

and after a brief search of google...

IMG-0738.jpg.20ee931a77d8054a0cd9de58536980c0.jpg

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Doc Hudson

How do electric vehicles fair with window de-misting and heating?  I recall seeing a couple of Nissan Leaf's during the cold weather before Christmas on the Motorway with very steamed up windows. Those functions must take a toll on the battery.

 

Doc H.

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Sharpend

Good point Doc, I’d missed that one. 
do these cars have like a dynamo within that charges as it drives? 
I noticed the recent advert for the Lexus says it charges as it goes now. Surly this would have been a first thought :C 

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Murdoch

And then there is the small matter of cold weather affecting the battery charging / range.

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binky

Tesla PV batteries have heaters, so I would assume their cars also have heaters.

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Andy™
9 hours ago, Sharpend said:

Good point Doc, I’d missed that one. 
do these cars have like a dynamo within that charges as it drives? 
I noticed the recent advert for the Lexus says it charges as it goes now. Surly this would have been a first thought :C 

cant get more energy out than you put in... to connect a dynamo and get energy from it will require more battery power to drive the car forwards to start with...

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Sharpend
1 hour ago, Andy™ said:

cant get more energy out than you put in... to connect a dynamo and get energy from it will require more battery power to drive the car forwards to start with...


yes I follow the logic, just curious as to how Lexus claim to do it? 

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binky

regenerative braking. THe wheels are driven by electric motors, and as we all know a motor can also be used to generate, so when driving downhill or slowing down, they can be used to boost the battery, same as F1 cars.

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Tony S

Regeneration, a technology from the glorious days of trams. A tram going down hill feeds in to the system, a tram going up hill draws that power off the system.

 

I altered two DC traction drives, I got shouted at because I’d reduced the deceleration rate and the feed back rate. The amount of power returned to the system was the same but slower. It saved a fortune in mechanical repairs to the drive train.

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