EICR before new works/ minor works

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Hi all,

How do other sparks go about performing new works on an existing install such as a new ring or even just a minor works?

Do you insist on an EICR before starting on anything new?

I'm losing work because people aren't interested in an EICR for the sake of a new light fitting going up.

Any thoughts are welcome.

Neil.

 
Why did you think any eicr is necessary for such a minor change.

Check the Zs, but nothing more when doing the work

 
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Thanks for the replies Andy, Murdoch.

I'm keen to know how other lads work.

I don't want to be the last person to work on a circuit then be liable for it and any pre-existing faults.

At what point do you start to do a full set of tests and document it?

I met a spark that worked for PHS and he did a minor works for every Hand Dryer he swapped out, company policy.

To cover my backside and Duty of Care, I would of thought a minor works every time, even just a light fitting swap.

Cheers,

Neil.

 
Reality check.

Any Tom, Dick or Harry can do like for like swaps, so any unnecessary paperwork will drive you round the bend.

i would say do a Zs Reading and note the figure on your invoice .....

 
Thanks Murdoch. 

What prework tests would you do on an older ring or radial at a domestic before doing the actual job? 

Like adding a couple of sockets etc.... 

 
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Before you can quote you need to review the fuseboard, earthing and bonding ..... then price it , often a simple extra socket can cost £600 


Murdoch,

How do you go on if you find a fault with the wiring after your alteration?

In the past I've put them right at my own cost just to save the customer moaning or refusing to pay up.

Thats why I ask what tests other s do before starting.

Neil what tests would you do at work before adding/altering a circuit? 


Sharpend, 

Ideally I'd do a full set so I can tell the customer of any faults before I start altering anything.

In the real world - they don't care and just want the extra socket so find someone else, i'm guessing.

As I say, I have been caught out with existing faults previously and put them right at my own cost during whatever work I was doing.

Obviously like any normal person, I don't want to get caught out again.

 
How do you go on if you find a fault with the wiring after your alteration?

In the past I've put them right at my own cost just to save the customer moaning or refusing to pay up.


Well ............ I talk to the client about unexpected issues and the cost implications before I send an estimate

With fuseboard changes , I include the following caveat:

"NB: If problems are detected during the fuseboard change additional work may be required. Such issues and associated costs will be discussed with you, prior to being implemented"

Never been challenged on it and on the rare occasions I find a fault ............. I talk about the cost implications and update the customer by email to confirm when I get home. 

Got one ATM - sent an estimate for a CU change and a few extras - to find a plumber has been sparking .......... been rectifying his work too - so the customer saving is a big fat zero. Then there is an issue that probably dates back to when the house was built in 1980 ..not sure how to fix that!

Its all about communication

Back to EICR's - there are some properties where I do insist on an EICR before I will even do an estimate for a CU change ...  

 
You only need to check the existing as far as your new work depends on it and you are not introducing a danger that wasn't there before, or instance (In terms of pre-lim checks)

Change a light fitting - Check there is a Zs at the point you are working and verify that the circuit is not on a supidly sized circuit breaker

Add a new cirucit - Check the suppliers earthing arrangement, bonding, that there is a suitable way to come off

Adding extra sockets to a ring - RCD to ring? Ring is continous and the the point you are comming off is on the ring

etc.

Also remember that the regs are not retrospective, so if you are asked to change a socket and its not on RCD, you can do that and just note it down, the point was there without RCD protection, and it still is, but if you are asked to put another one at the side of it, you have fitted an extra point that wasn't there and that must comply. A broken socket shouldn't be prevented from being swapped out just because its not on RCD.

In terms of testing when finished, a minor works is possibly overkill for an accessory swap, you could just have a custom form that documents what you did and what the zs was, along with rcd times if it was on RCD and you wanted to.

If you are there to change a light fitting and notice something that would be a C1 on an EICR then you should make the person in charge aware, and ideally (as long as they don't object) do something to remove the immediate risk, so if the problem is a totally smashed socket, then taping it up and labelling as out of use would be considered reasonable, then make a note of it in comments on existing, but you might find that they just ask you to swap it and add it to the bill.

 
As the others have said Neil, it’s all about communicating, as long as you are honest and upfront then that’s all you can really do, the decision lies with the one paying. 

 
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