On the subject of mandatory EICR's for England

A customer has sent me the following:

"What are my responsibilities as the landlord of a property in England?

The Electrical Safety Standards in the Private Rented Sector (England) Regulations 2020 places a continuous duty on landlords in England to maintain their property to the electrical safety standards and to have evidence of this. This means your property must meet the 18th Edition of the Wiring Regulations and you must have a report that shows this from a qualified person.

Unfortunately, as currently drafted the regulations do not appear to allow for a qualified inspector to declare the installations are safe, even if they do not meet these new standards. This means that substantial alterations to the property may need to be made as the 18th Edition is a recent publication and most properties were not built or altered with this publication in mind.

We do not believe this is the intention of the regulations. MHCLG has consistently communicated that the new regulations are aimed at the 22% of landlords who do not inspect the electrical installations for their property. As such, we would recommend that landlords with a property deemed safe by a qualified person wait for further guidance on this before taking action."

So ........... must meet the 18th Edition .............. surely this is incorrect. Shouldn't it state that installations must be satisfactory?

Interested to hear peoples thoughts

Thanks

PS popcorn to hand

Well you’ll be ok for work for ever then, coz by the time you’ve got them complying with 18th we'll be onto 19th, the gravy train keeps on chugging.
 

that’s got to be a case of a DJ not knowing of what he means?

Sharpend said:

that’s got to be a case of a DJ not knowing of what he means?

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a who ????????

Desk Jockey

Yes  someone has published that without knowing the full facts  .       Its a stupid statement , as we as sparks know,    every time  new Regs  are issued  ,   every building in the kingdom  suddenly does not comply .  Its stated clearly somewhere that that is NOT the case.  

I followed the course of this legislation since we decided to follow Scotland  with it .    

When it was mooted that testing will NOT be undertaken by common or garden electricians  but an ELITE  SPECIALISED section would be created  ,  I contacted  two MPs and a Lord  to explain that the property will have been WIRED ....tested  and certified by  one of these dumb common, useless electricians  , BUT they won't be allowed to return in 5 yrs  to do a  EICR  .  

I still await their replies .  

I raised it with   ELECSA    and the reply was  ..."   An elite squad will NOT be created  but I won't be able to do any tests because I've not been assessed for carrying out PIRs .  Only Full Scope NICEIC members  comply.  "      

Evans Electric said:

Yes  someone has published that without knowing the full facts  .       Its a stupid statement , as we as sparks know,    every time  new Regs  are issued  ,   every building in the kingdom  suddenly does not comply .  Its stated clearly somewhere that that is NOT the case.  

I followed the course of this legislation since we decided to follow Scotland  with it .    

When it was mooted that testing will NOT be undertaken by common or garden electricians  but an ELITE  SPECIALISED section would be created  ,  I contacted  two MPs and a Lord  to explain that the property will have been WIRED ....tested  and certified by  one of these dumb common, useless electricians  , BUT they won't be allowed to return in 5 yrs  to do a  EICR  .  

I still await their replies .  

I raised it with   ELECSA    and the reply was  ..."   An elite squad will NOT be created  but I won't be able to do any tests because I've not been assessed for carrying out PIRs .  Only Full Scope NICEIC members  comply.  "      

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now Brexit is done, expect a reply anytime soon. 

Evans Electric said:

Yes  someone has published that without knowing the full facts  .       Its a stupid statement , as we as sparks know,    every time  new Regs  are issued  ,   every building in the kingdom  suddenly does not comply .  Its stated clearly somewhere that that is NOT the case.  

I followed the course of this legislation since we decided to follow Scotland  with it .    

When it was mooted that testing will NOT be undertaken by common or garden electricians  but an ELITE  SPECIALISED section would be created  ,  I contacted  two MPs and a Lord  to explain that the property will have been WIRED ....tested  and certified by  one of these dumb common, useless electricians  , BUT they won't be allowed to return in 5 yrs  to do a  EICR  .  

I still await their replies .  

I raised it with   ELECSA    and the reply was  ..."   An elite squad will NOT be created  but I won't be able to do any tests because I've not been assessed for carrying out PIRs .  Only Full Scope NICEIC members  comply.  "      

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this tells me that they are not confident that the majority of their Domestic installers are not competent to test a complete existing installation but will accept them to take responsibility of their own work! It’s a legal thing I believe. 

Doubt it Sharpie  .   

My own MP never replies anyway  .

The other MP  was pushing for testing ..... his constituency includes the Seaward  Instrument works. 

The Lord , our old MP , did acknowledge  but would  have to wait to see it  through the Lords. 

Sharpend said:

his tells me that they are not confident that the majority of their Domestic installers are not competent to test a complete existing installation but will accept them to take responsibility of their own work! It’s a legal thing I believe. 

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Yes but  sparks like me  only joined the scam because it became  impossible to carry house bashing  without it .     

Prior to the Part P  nonsense  we just did  Industrial , commercial & house bashing as a normal part of our remit .  

But the irony is that the lower scopes are supposed to be specialised in domestic works therefore wouldn’t these be the preferred persons to test houses? 

Problem arises when full scope members, who only do industrial decide to do EICRs .... without hands on experience 

it’s another mess in the making

Precisely Murdo, the whole system is a mess. Doomed to fail.  

Sharpend said:

Precisely Murdo, the whole system is a mess. Doomed to fail.  

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Makes you wonder who are the people making these decisions ............

So just to update the thread, here is the link to the legislation:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukdsi/2020/9780111191934/pdfs/ukdsi_9780111191934_en.pdf?dm_i=5172,4SB5,94CDW,J6NJ,1

On page 2 near the top, in "interpertation"

"“electrical installation” has the meaning given in regulation 2(1) of the Building Regulations 2010(b);

“electrical safety standards” means the standards for electrical installations in the eighteenth edition of the Wiring Regulations, published by the Institution of Engineering and Technology and the British Standards Institution as BS 7671: 2018(c);"

Which suggests to many people that the inspection needs to be carried out to assess compliance with the 18th edition only 

In duties of the landlord 3 (b) is a very good idea ........... if it happens

Thoughts good people

Just read first part and this only applies to new tenancies from June this year and to all tenancies from 2021. So we have a year to gain all the qualifications and hoops we need!! 

Now interestingly this ACT is like others Law, and the law says that a qualified competent person must undertake the I&T, law does not require you to be registered to any scheme, in fact I’ve not read anything that suggests a scheme? 
therefore as a suitably qualified electrician with I&T qualification I am legally qualified to undertake such I&T and as such legally do not need to be a member of a scheme and can not be forced to be so :C  

I simply can't get my head around the reference to the 18th edition...

Our house was refurbished to the 17th Edition AMD 2 ............ so if inspected won't comply with the 18th edition - then what?

the lunatics are running the asylum (or should I say the DCLG)

Probably whilst in consultation with Certsure amongst others they were advised that the new regs will be in force by then and contain great additions to safety which was a great selling point and seeing as it is was the DCLG that implemented Part P it wouldn’t look right if they permitted a previous out dated standard :C  

Or, on the bright side, you could always hope that the Idjuts compiling these 'guides/regulations/laws' (delete as appropriate), are all wiped out by Coronavirus. give it six months it may all be changed again!

Doc H.

Doc Hudson said:

Or, on the bright side, you could always hope that the Idjuts compiling these 'guides/regulations/laws' (delete as appropriate), are all wiped out by Coronavirus. give it six months it may all be changed again!

Doc H.

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18th edition amendment 2.  Anti bacterial surfaces to all CU's and electrical accessories.

Doc Hudson said:

Or, on the bright side, you could always hope that the Idjuts compiling these 'guides/regulations/laws' (delete as appropriate), are all wiped out by Coronavirus. give it six months it may all be changed again!

Doc H.

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Maybe , but no doubt they will rename nameless ......, as will their successors