EICR Query on C2 classifications please

Talk Electrician Forum

Help Support Talk Electrician Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Ian M

Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2020
Messages
16
Reaction score
1
Hi , Please bear with me as I'm a mechanical engineer 😉 but I have just had a EICR produced for me that to my mind smacks of "fishing for work" . I believe in having a safe sound installation but am especially keen not to have unnecessary expense at the moment . The house is about 13 years old so was surprised to see the report estimated the wiring to be 23 years old to start with but the issues brought up were:

1) The RCD in the CU is faulty and cannot be reset and has had to be removed . C2

2) No RCD protection to 6 circuits and supplemental bonding is not present . C2

Plus a selection of C3s including that an extractor fan was not working .

This has resulted in a quote for £935 +VAT to , replace the consumer unit to comply with BS7671:2018 and provide RCD protection to all circuits plus replace two smoke alarms that expire in 2021 .

What annoyed me as much as anything is that before he removed the "faulty" RCD the sysytem was working and apparently protected , it is now without any RCD protecton and less safe than before the EICR ? I would have expected him just to have replaced the RCD not remove it for £60-70 ? The CU would appear to have space for an additional RCD for the other 6 circuits is this not possible and the whole CU needs to be replaced ? And yes it was mentioned that it is a plastic CU .

Your thoughts please ? , am awaiting a call back on it .

 
Hi , Please bear with me as I'm a mechanical engineer 😉 but I have just had a EICR produced for me that to my mind smacks of "fishing for work" . I believe in having a safe sound installation but am especially keen not to have unnecessary expense at the moment . The house is about 13 years old so was surprised to see the report estimated the wiring to be 23 years old to start with but the issues brought up were:

1) The RCD in the CU is faulty and cannot be reset and has had to be removed . C2

2) No RCD protection to 6 circuits and supplemental bonding is not present . C2

Plus a selection of C3s including that an extractor fan was not working .

This has resulted in a quote for £935 +VAT to , replace the consumer unit to comply with BS7671:2018 and provide RCD protection to all circuits plus replace two smoke alarms that expire in 2021 .

What annoyed me as much as anything is that before he removed the "faulty" RCD the sysytem was working and apparently protected , it is now without any RCD protection and less safe than before the EICR ? I would have expected him just to have replaced the RCD not remove it for £60-70 ? The CU would appear to have space for an additional RCD for the other 6 circuits is this not possible and the whole CU needs to be replaced ? And yes it was mentioned that it is a plastic CU .

Your thoughts please ? , am awaiting a call back on it .


Why was the RCD removed? You say it can't be reset - which sounds a little odd IMHO

How many circuits in the fuseboard

What circuits do not have RCD protection - you say 6 circuits - presumably none of these would have been covered by the "removed" RCD?

What make is the fuseboard?

AND I would recommend you invite another couple of sparks in to review the report AND offer competitive quotes - you are under no obligation to use the spark who did the EICR

Also, suggest you google Best Practice Guide No 4 - and have a read

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I thought it strange that the RCD could not be reset myself , its a 10 circuit CU ,Wylex I think . From the EICR I can't identify which circuits were covered by the removed RCD as it's not been completed , just seemed strange thing to do to me to remove rather than just replace it and has he determined there is no earth fault .... Having paid the £200 I also notice that the report suggests that after the works are satifactorily completed another inspection is made before 30 June 2020 - this could get expensive having an inspection every 3 months ! Having a read now , thanks .

 
I thought it strange that the RCD could not be reset myself , its a 10 circuit CU ,Wylex I think . From the EICR I can't identify which circuits were covered by the removed RCD as it's not been completed , just seemed strange thing to do to me to remove rather than just replace it and has he determined there is no earth fault .... Having paid the £200 I also notice that the report suggests that after the works are satifactorily completed another inspection is made before 30 June 2020 - this could get expensive having an inspection every 3 months ! Having a read now , thanks .


I would say could you post a picture or two of the fuseboard but with less than 10 posts you probably can't

Where in the UK are you?

As for another inspection before the end of June  I think the spark is jumping the gun with new legislation ............... 

 
I would say could you post a picture or two of the fuseboard but with less than 10 posts you probably can't

Where in the UK are you?

As for another inspection before the end of June  I think the spark is jumping the gun with new legislation ............... 
 I get the impression he is jumping the gun and wants all installations to be 18th Ed compliant ? My overall feeling was he was looking for work , part of a Nationwide franchise and I really did not like the whole removal of the RCD thing . Am trying to extract a pic taken of the CU , not going well so far ....

Sorry should have said , Cambridgeshire .

Best practice guide makes for easy reading and seems to reinforce my uninformed view , looks like the money for that EICR was pretty much wasted and I need to start again .

 
Last edited by a moderator:
 I get the impression he is jumping the gun and wants all installations to be 18th Ed compliant ? My overall feeling was he was looking for work , part of a Nationwide franchise and I really did not like the whole removal of the RCD thing . Am trying to extract a pic taken of the CU , not going well so far ....

Sorry should have said , Cambridgeshire .

Best practice guide makes for easy reading and seems to reinforce my uninformed view , looks like the money for that EICR was pretty much wated and I need to start again .




Hum ........... yes, maybe - there is a terrible piece of legislation going through parliament at the moment which refers to the 18th Edition - which means that about 98% or more of the UK housing stock will fail - I for 1 have written to my MP expressing the blatant issue with the draft legislation. If this should enter the statue book lots of homes would mean rewires which would be totally unnecessary. Its fair to say this situation, which is already a "mess" will become even messier soon.

The current 18th edition EICR - is that , external references (IMHO) to other legislation is irrelevant.

So back to the EICR - for each C2 what codes has he referenced, and what is the "issue"

 
A faulty rcd should be replaced, not removed, and unless it is an obscure make, should be easy and cheap to get.

The 6 circuits without an rcd.  Sounds like it was wired to 16th edition.  Those, or some of them, should have had extra cross bonding earthing. It's possible that was not done and that is what he is talking about.  Either install the bonding, or fit an rcbo for that circuit to remove the need for it,

No new board needed. What IS needed is a better electrician who understands the rules.

 
He hasn't referenced any codes , just the observations I posted , it's in PDF form which I have trouble manipulating , I'll scan it and try to post . Thanks again for the sanity check !

 
What IS needed is a better electrician who understands the rules.


The OP did say its a "nationwide" franchise - so sell, sell, sell is the goal probably

He hasn't referenced any codes , just the observations I posted , it's in PDF form which I have trouble manipulating , I'll scan it and try to post . Thanks again for the sanity check !


You probably wont be able to post an attachment until you hit 10 posts. (and if you can please redact anything pertaining to your address or the companies details)

So no codes? can you type in the first comment as an example

 
 It's a house I rent out as haven't been able to move there yet and it was suggested by the letting agent who contacted this group


OK. Rental. The agent is helping to an extent by recommending you have this done but I would agree with ProDave about the competence of the person doing the report.

There are countless numbers of Wylex installations from the 1990's and upgrading them is pretty straight forward.

 
Section K Observations

1 The RCD in the consumer unit is faulty (cannot be reset) and has had to be removed  Classification code C2

2  No RCD protection to 6 circuits and supplemental bonding is not present Classification code C2

3 One or more accessories are not securely attache dto the wall/celing - immersion switch  Classification code C3

4 The condition of certain enclosures does not comply in terms of IP rating - bathroom and ensuite lights Classification code C3

I want the installation to be safe and don't want to cut corners but just get the impression that he was just loooking for work and I did not like the RCD removal as being a good way of tackling a previously non existant problem .

 
I wouldn't be "lumping" 7 "issues" in a single code and the use of C2 isn't appropriate (probably)

What are these 6 circuits for?
I can't easily identify the six circuits as in the "circuit details , Test results" section the protective device RCD section has not been completed - because he removed it maybe ?!

 
The OP did say its a "nationwide" franchise - so sell, sell, sell is the goal probably

You probably wont be able to post an attachment until you hit 10 posts. (and if you can please redact anything pertaining to your address or the companies details)

So no codes? can you type in the first comment as an example
 Apologies think i've found what you were asking for :

4.18 RCD (s) provided for fault protection - includes RCBOs (411.4.204;411.5.2 ;531.2)    C2

4.19 RCDs provided for additional protection /requirements - including RCBOs (411.3.3; 415.1)  C2

 
 Apologies think i've found what you were asking for :

4.18 RCD (s) provided for fault protection - includes RCBOs (411.4.204;411.5.2 ;531.2)    C2

4.19 RCDs provided for additional protection /requirements - including RCBOs (411.3.3; 415.1)  C2


OK.

So what are these circuits for? cooker? sockets? lights? door bell?

How many circuits in total.

I DO think you need to locate a local independent spark .......

 
 Apologies think i've found what you were asking for :

4.18 RCD (s) provided for fault protection - includes RCBOs (411.4.204;411.5.2 ;531.2)    C2

4.19 RCDs provided for additional protection /requirements - including RCBOs (411.3.3; 415.1)  C2


eicrlr 002.jpg

 
OK.

So what are these circuits for? cooker? sockets? lights? door bell?

How many circuits in total.

I DO think you need to locate a local independent spark .......
 Think so . I believe the circuits to be Doorbell , Upstairs lights, Smoke detector , security alarm (not used) Downstairs lights , lights /Hall and those previously on the removed RCD were immersion heater , sockets  kitchen , sockets lounge and the cooker point .  If an additional RCD can be fitted to protect the extra 6 circuits I'd be happy to pay for that plus of course the "failed" unit . I'll have a conversation with the agent now to advise that I don't want the franchise to be involved further . Thanks very much for all the advice.

Could you post the page which lists the circuits?
eicrcircuit list 001.jpg

 
Last edited by a moderator:

Latest posts

Top