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root

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Hi guys,

Came across this forum in the hope to find some sound advice on what the best options and route to take to get into electric installation.

I have been working in IT for past 15 years but will be made redundant by November this year. So I can find another office based job in IT or learn a new skill and work for myself eventually.

Done some domestic re-wiring doing house refurb but mainly pulling cables and final fix stuff.

I lot of courses about around £4000 mark which are C&G accredited but the information is varies so widely.

Would appreciate any pointers and links that could help in Nottingham area

Many Thanks

 
If you can hack sitting in an office for hours on end then why change to something so much more physical? 
also why can’t you work for yourself in the IT field? What is your specialist area? 

 
It is something I have always wanted to do, we have a few properties but always have to rely on getting a sparky in for various work. Eventually I would like to be able to that work myself.

 
We 've been  through this many times on here , you can read the threads if you find them . 

It can be a VERY expensive  experience and there is a danger of paying good money for the wrong qualifications . 

You big problem will be where you are required to do practical  work with an employer / contractor  .

Why don't you go with  the IT side ?   

 
Well this is where I want to make sure I don't do the wrong course. I have seen fees of around £3-4K finding an employer should be an issue to do practical work with.

I have been a analyst for last 8 years and I have never enjoyed, pay hasn't been great more than 20 but less than 40. I have worked on 3 big refurbs not my own doing networking, sat and av distribution, cctv etc and would love to go down the route of doing smart homes with control4 etc. However none of this will happen quickly.

Just don't want to go and do a city and guilds course and then find out its the wrong type. There's quite a new new build estates who I was thinking of approaching to see what they require for sparky to work and look at getting CSCS card 

 
You probably need a JIB  card  ...I've forgotten what they call them these days ,  Electrical Labourer  or something .  Its one way of building up experience .   

However  you could look at  specialising in your networking , CCTV,  Control 4  , smart home stuff .     You wouldn't need any of the carp  that is inflicted upon sparks .

Are you aware you need to be classified as "competent"  under Part P of the Building Regs  to do domestic  240V   work ?      Doesn't apply to what you've done already .

And the money is not a great as you may have heard .   

 
What do you need to do to prove you are competent under part p? I am able wire up switches, sockets light fittings, know how to use mutlimeter, know wiring colours for current standards and previous wiring colours eg red and black.

I have done anything with consumer boards. I would really like to eventually specialise in home security, networking and distribution and probably work as a contractor along side a another electrician.

I would like to get some hands on experience and will look at the JIB card

Thanks for the reply @Evans Electric  

 
What do you need to do to prove you are competent under part p?

I am able wire up switches, sockets light fittings, know how to use multimeter, know wiring colours for current standards and previous wiring colours eg red and black.




Have you got a copy of the Building Regs and Part P specifically?

To undertake electrical work in peoples houses you would need to demonstrate competence, have the appropriate insurances, calibrated test equipment (most of us have a multi function tester) and more importantly be able to modify existing circuits and install new circuits , along with the appropriate certificates- and that's where Part P comes in.

NB: Part P applies in 1 guise in England, a different guise in Wales, Scotland have rules - not sure about Northern Ireland

Hope this helps

 
Just off the back of your reply, I would say I am not competent based on the not being just on the things you have mentioned. Don't have any real experience working with existing circuits and installing new circuits. This is where I need to get more hand on experience hence some learning by either courses or hands on shadowing etc.

I can set up as my own limited company and apply for insurance but I doubt I will be able to be insured without some qualifications to show.

 
If the smart home is the Avenue you want to go in, then you shouldn’t need an electrical qualification.  Your best bet would be to speak to manufacture of the system you want to specialise in and see if they do a course to make you an accredited installer of their systems. They will then tell you if you need any electrical qualifications?? 

 
Think I need to get some hands on experience and to help build confidence with someone local. I have reached out to some guys locally so fingers crossed I will get some sort of response.

 
If the smart home is the Avenue you want to go in, then you shouldn’t need an electrical qualification.  Your best bet would be to speak to manufacture of the system you want to specialise in and see if they do a course to make you an accredited installer of their systems. They will then tell you if you need any electrical qualifications?? 
all you would need is the odd fused spur / socket to plug your stuff into. You could go for a 'limited scope' registration, or just get a sparky with the the right ticket to do that bit for you. CCTV, smart homes etc etc don't require much electrical work, unless you fit one of the 240V cables systems in a new build.  Those are quite rare, most of your work is likely to be retrofit controls to exisiting ccts. 

 
So been doing some reading and research and although I can go down the route of doing bare minimum and rely on someone else I would like to be able to do notifiable work eventually.

I believe I found what looks like the correct pathway to follow and fees are no where near as much and at the end I would have the following:

  • Level 3 City & Guilds 2393 – Part P of the Building Regulations,
  • Level 3 City & Guilds 2382 – 18th Edition Wiring Regulations,
  • Level 2 City & Guilds 2392 – Inspection Testing & Verification. 

After this it will be up to me to get myself upto scratch and have experience carry out the works. I don't think I would be using the Part P scheme as I would imagine doing the works under building regs?

I also think after doing this I will enquire with texecom (carry out free courses for their alarm systems) and will more than likely do basic smart homes to begin with as I understand joining control4 installer list as some additional commitment required.

This should give me a good foundation to build on as long as the 3 qualifications hold the correct weight needed to approach electrical contractors who work on new builds etc (JIB / CSCS required)

Any guidance would be great and any recommended course providers would be even better. Currently looking at EC4U (not sure if allowed to post link)

Many thanks

 
Congratulations you have found ............

a nothing course. 
 

part p is not a meaningful course it is merely an understanding to a building Reg which you can freely read up on. 
you can pay a fee each job for building control to send out a suitably qualified spark to I&T your work which would make most if not all jobs overpriced. So more economic to register with a Part P competent person scheme. 
the other two courses will teach you the electrical regulations which you can purchase and read in your own time, and how or what to look for on an installation prior to testing. 

so of no use to you whatsoever even if it is cheaper! 
 

a new build contractor will probably not touch you with just those qualifications. 
 

if you are serious about becoming an electrician then you will need the C&G electrical installation qualifications 2356? Starting at level 2 then 3 then NVQ/AM2 this will also make you exempt from needing the 18th edition certificate as you will be taught to this standard. 
then you can go and do what you like electrically with a little/lot of guidance as a qualification on its own doesn’t give you sufficient understanding or knowledge to know the real world experiences. 
Once you are Enrolled on the level 2 course then you have shown commitment and will have more chance of landing some work experience with the new build contractor. 

 
So been doing some reading and research and although I can go down the route of doing bare minimum and rely on someone else I would like to be able to do notifiable work eventually.

I believe I found what looks like the correct pathway to follow and fees are no where near as much and at the end I would have the following:

  • Level 3 City & Guilds 2393 – Part P of the Building Regulations,
  • Level 3 City & Guilds 2382 – 18th Edition Wiring Regulations,
  • Level 2 City & Guilds 2392 – Inspection Testing & Verification. 

After this it will be up to me to get myself upto scratch and have experience carry out the works. I don't think I would be using the Part P scheme as I would imagine doing the works under building regs?

I also think after doing this I will enquire with texecom (carry out free courses for their alarm systems) and will more than likely do basic smart homes to begin with as I understand joining control4 installer list as some additional commitment required.

This should give me a good foundation to build on as long as the 3 qualifications hold the correct weight needed to approach electrical contractors who work on new builds etc (JIB / CSCS required)

Any guidance would be great and any recommended course providers would be even better. Currently looking at EC4U (not sure if allowed to post link)

Many thanks


You are right in looking at City & Guilds qualifications...

BUT...

I don't think your research included looking at the City & Guilds website to view who and what purpose the courses you mention are aimed at...

2393:- https://www.cityandguilds.com/qualifications-and-apprenticeships/building-services-industry/electrical-installation/2393-building-regulations-for-electrical-installations-in-dwellings#

Extract:-

The Certificate in the Building Regulations for Electrical Installations in Dwellings is for those working in the building trades and others who need to know how electrical installations in homes can affect the building construction. You should be a qualified electrician or a qualified individual in an allied trade. You should also be practicing your trade in England and Wales, as there are different regulations governing Scotland and Northern Ireland.


2382:- https://www.cityandguilds.com/qualifications-and-apprenticeships/building-services-industry/electrical-installation/2382-requirements-for-electrical-installations#

Extract:-

If you're a practising electrician, you must comply with the regulations for electrical work, this qualification is designed to provide  those seeking progression in their career with the opportunity to develop the skills necessary to carry out job roles and responsibilities associated with the Electrotechnical industry


2392:- https://www.cityandguilds.com/qualifications-and-apprenticeships/building-services-industry/electrical-installation/2392-fundamental-inspection-testing-and-initial-verification#

Extract:-

You might be a practising electrician who hasn't worked on fundamental inspection and testing since qualifying, or you might have recently become qualified as an electrician after working in other engineering disciplines or trades.
If you currently work in electrical testing, a Certificate in Fundamental Inspection, Testing and Initial Verification can help you update your skills to keep up with best practice in the area.


What you found seems cheaper than you expected because it will not give you what you expect to have after spending the money..

If you have the time and the money to waste, then give it a go...  

But I would be betting that you come out disappointed with the outcome.

Basically none of those courses actually cover electrical installation, or the science and calculations required to design and install additions or alterations to installations that will fail safe, by protecting people, property or livestock...  Which is the basic underlying principle required to ensure your work is safe.

City & Guilds electrical installation courses, come under the scope of Building Services, e.g.

https://www.cityandguilds.com/qualifications-and-apprenticeships/building-services-industry#tab=qualifications

Over the years some of the course content and/or course numbers change..  

So I am not up-to-date with all current course numbers..

But the ones you have quoted are not intended as the starting point to become a qualified electrician able to sign off their own work..

If for example you were looking to self certify your work by becoming an NICEIC Domestic Installer their requirements can be found..

http://www.niceic.com/contractor/essentials/assessment/niceic-and-assessment/what-qualifications-does-the-qualified-supervi-(1)

Or if looking to join NAPIT..

http://www.napit.org.uk/downloads/forms/napit-guide-to-qualifications-requirements-electrical.pdf

Basically the courses you listed are what I would call "Top-Up" courses for those already qualified & working in the trade to enhance some of their abilities and potential.

The old sayings... "There is no such thing as a free lunch" & "If it seems too good to be true, it probably is!"

Are both still very much applicable today!    

What you want to do..

Is do-able..

But it will cost both Time and Money...

There is no quick short-cut to jump into what you are aiming for...

IT & coms both have massive differences to electrical installation..

Some of the physics and how circuits work are similar..

BUT several areas are completely different, as it is very difficult to cause death in less than half a second to a healthy adult whilst working in IT..

Whereas in electrical work at 230v or higher it is a daily consideration on every job!

:coffee

 
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