Qualification Route

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Hi Everyone,

I am not an electrcian, but am competant and have carried out my own electrics/family/friends for years safely.

I am now looking to gain these qualifications that I saw in a recent post about EICR:

QCF Level 3 18th Edition Qualification plus a QCF level 3 Qualification in Periodic Inspection and Testing e.g 2391 or 2395

I want to be able to carry our my own EICR's PAT testing in accordance with the law and be qualified and registered to do so.

What is the quickest way to achive this?

Any help appreciated, as after a lot of searching there seems to be a hundreds of online routes. Thanks

 
What qualifications do you currently have to justify your statement you are competent and can work safely?

e.g. How have you proved any alterations you have done will disconnect the power fast enough without endangering people property or livestock?

Electrical alterations are not about making something work..

they are about ensuring it will fail-safe.

Any idiot can join wires to make something work.  

And doing EICR's is another ball game completely from adding a few circuits or swapping a CU.   

Without knowing what you currently know its impossible to offer any sensible advice about the next steps that will not be either..

duplicating what you already know..  or jumping too many levels forward so you are out of your depth.. 

Sort of like me asking you what's the quickest way for me to get to London... 

But not telling you where I am travelling from! 

Luton to London is a big difference from Lands-End to London..

Basically a bit more info about your background first would help offering the best advice...

Guinness  

 
So other than doing electrics for family & friends what other experience do you have, there is a bit more to it than claiming you are competent because of a few installs that "worked", do you have the necessary test equipment and know how to use it to verify the installations you have undertaken are safe and meet the regulations

I think you will need more than the courses you mention to be classed as competent and with EICR's the experience needed is something you don't get from a quick course it takes a a good few years

 
Qualifications are one thing, little or no practical experience is another.

a minimum of 5 years of coal face work should be where the bar is set. 
 

too many people are doing EICRs with little or no real experience 

 
I have to concur with @Murdoch here, in the old days a lad would complete a proper apprenticeship and then stay with the company to gain valuable experience. Today you can walk out of one profession/vocation into being a Sparky with no more than a couple of worthless courses, if that doesn’t spell Danger then I don’t know what does. These courses should be spread out over a greater time frame and periods of block working experience should be ascertained before any qualification can be suitably attributed to a candidate. 
:C  

 
A few days out of doing their 18th is in no position to comment on 15th, 16th or 17th edition installs, in fact they probably don’t really grasp the 18th ..

 
A few days out of doing their 18th is in no position to comment on 15th, 16th or 17th edition installs, in fact they probably don’t really grasp the 18th ..
this is the reality, I wonder whether these training schools actually advise the student of this important observation, that there were regs and installs that pre date the 18th Edition? 

 
this is the reality, I wonder whether these training schools actually advise the student of this important observation, that there were regs and installs that pre date the 18th Edition? 
which is why I think so many EICRs are getting unsatisfactory 

cars from the 1960s without seat belts are still allowed on the roads 

 
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I want to be able to carry our my own EICR's PAT testing in accordance with the law and be qualified and registered to do so.
What is the quickest way to achive this?
Any help appreciated, as after a lot of searching there seems to be a hundreds of online routes. Thanks


If you are already competent and have a good concept of electrical science and theory, a formal PAT qualification can be acquired easily in a day, but its not worth a fat lot in the real world of employment. Whereas establishing if an installation is satisfactory or unsatisfactory for continued use, (the purpose of an EICR), requires someone with a good knowledge, understand and experience, of current and previous wiring regulations.  Someone able to do EICR's should have a comprehensive understanding of all the content of BS7671Guidance Note 3.  Do you have a copy?  https://www.amazon.co.uk/Guidance-Note-Inspection-Electrical-Regulations/dp/1785614525/ref=sr_1_1 If not it may help point you to what you need to work on.

Doc H.   

 
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which is why I think so many EICRs are getting unsatisfactory 

cars from the 1960s without seat belts are still allowed on the roads 


Its a little bit different with EICRs in that you always assess agaisnt the current standard, while knowledge of the previous editions gives you a background on the issue and helps with seecting a code, you woudnt be able to state a a 60s installation is ok for continued service because it met the standards in force at the time, like you could with a car. Granted most of the issues thrown up would be C3, however there is likely to be some C2s, for things like no RCD protetion to socket outlets for external use (Although knowing what the sixteenth edition said might help access that it is more important that these have RCD protection, compared with those on the second floor)

 
which is why I think so many EICRs are getting unsatisfactory 

cars from the 1960s without seat belts are still allowed on the roads 
Which is where the term 'good for continued service' comes in! just because it's old doesn't mean it's no good, look at a lot of us on here, we might be old and approaching retirement, but we can still run rings around some of the younger sparks, so I guess you could say we're still good for continued service, lol

 
Which is where the term 'good for continued service' comes in! just because it's old doesn't mean it's no good, look at a lot of us on here, we might be old and approaching retirement, but we can still run rings around some of the younger sparks, so I guess you could say we're still good for continued service, lol




But people are still giving out C2's like sweeties at a childrens party .....

 
Interesting how I see a few people in the Electrical industry actually don't like none apprenticed electricians. The qualifications are what we do. 

The on site electrical work will and does give everyone there skills. I have noted a few so called Electricians all apprenticed and the quality of work is very bad. This is what I see in our industry all the time. To much credit is given to these lazy electricians who think they deserve a living and don't and cant do the job they where shown for 5 years.

This is where the C codes come from in commercial work. To easy to turn a blind eye. 

I however will teach a dilutee anytime as they actually do want to be electricians.

The OP needs to get his qualifications and enjoy what can be a good career. There is a saying start at the bottom and work your way up. 

 
The truth is simply it is more about the person rather than the qualifications, if the person wants to learn then they will always be asking questions to absorb as much knowledge as possible, however for industry to recognise the person requires a qualification, the qualification will/should give the person the underpinning knowledge required, so a person wanting to learn will glean much, a person who wants an ‘easy’ life will glean little. 

The big failure is not ‘apprenticed trained’ v ‘qualification route’ it’s a combination of quality training attached to a quality person. 
The failure is magnified by the ‘quick buck’ training providers offering much meaningless qualification in a short period of time. 
It is not to say that a part time course over 3years can’t be compressed to a short full time course, it can, but the quality and absorption rates are greatly impacted as the student doesn’t have time to digest what they have learnt before they are piled with more information.  There is also no time for them to gain any meaning full work experience to coincide with the study, thus developing the learning. 
Therefore I would always direct a new applicant towards the college courses as opposed to the short time courses. I don’t care how old you are, you want to learn and more importantly understand why your bad habits you’ve accumulated over the years are wrong then do the long course and learn properly. 
 

Sadly with the attitudes of younger generations wanting everything ‘ today’ I can only see the training scenarios getting worse. 

 
Interesting how I see a few people in the Electrical industry actually don't like none apprenticed electricians. The qualifications are what we do.
An interesting statement from someone who chooses not to post a profile although what you include in that is only really validated against what you post afterwards

A proper apprenticeship generally proves that as well as having site experience they have the underpinning college education and certificates to back it up although that is no guarantee that after 4 or 5 years you will have a good electrician. Over the years most of the apprentices I have employed / mentored have gone on to be be good tradesman although 1 or 2 would not make the grade as long as they have a hole in a certain part of their anatomy

I have worked with and in the past employed guys who did the 6 month government Skill Centre course that was around in the 80's / 90's they were not the finished tradesman after the course and some made the grade after 6 - 12 months on site experience and a good number didn't

The situation we now have is that apprenticeships are few and far between and we have short courses that allow people to gain certificates without all the knowledge to support the qualification they are awarded and their ongoing training / support is forums like this

The on site electrical work will and does give everyone there skills. I have noted a few so called Electricians all apprenticed and the quality of work is very bad. This is what I see in our industry all the time. To much credit is given to these lazy electricians who think they deserve a living and don't and cant do the job they where shown for 5 years.
On site work is nothing without the proper theoretical knowledge to back it up and both parts support each other

I don't ever recall being asked whether I did an apprenticeship on any job so how have you noted that some apprenticed electricians work is very bad or are you making a statement based on an assumption

I however will teach a dilutee anytime as they actually do want to be electricians.
I'm assuming by "dilutee" you are referring to a short course guy, the question is do they really want to be an electrician or is it the £50K / year carrot that has swayed their choice to enter the industry

The OP needs to get his qualifications and enjoy what can be a good career. There is a saying start at the bottom and work your way up. 
The problem these days is identifying the quality of the qualifications you are looking to take or already have and then understanding that without some post qualification site experience they are not much use

 
Very Employer-esk and very funny to read. I will get around to my profile when I know how to do it. I don't really do computers only for the odd game or chat.  

I do agree with the certificates. Should be the full college course as this does give you the all-round education.  (The qualifications are what we do).

No Assumption. Where do all the C codes come in. Apprenticed electricians was used as a shame, as they are suppose to be qualified and educated to a standard of skill - by employers. No not employers. Other electricians on site who train these apprentices. I have never seen many employers on site who had the time to actually teach skills. I am glad you do this as it probably will make better electricians over time. 

As for the 50k carrot. That is an assumption not everyone gets that. Maybe you pay that, but not ever company will or does. From 29k upwards depending on your trade type. 

Sorry if I hit a nerve. It was not my intention.

 
The truth is simply it is more about the person rather than the qualifications, if the person wants to learn then they will always be asking questions to absorb as much knowledge as possible, however for industry to recognise the person requires a qualification, the qualification will/should give the person the underpinning knowledge required, so a person wanting to learn will glean much, a person who wants an ‘easy’ life will glean little. 

The big failure is not ‘apprenticed trained’ v ‘qualification route’ it’s a combination of quality training attached to a quality person. 
The failure is magnified by the ‘quick buck’ training providers offering much meaningless qualification in a short period of time. 
It is not to say that a part time course over 3years can’t be compressed to a short full time course, it can, but the quality and absorption rates are greatly impacted as the student doesn’t have time to digest what they have learnt before they are piled with more information.  There is also no time for them to gain any meaning full work experience to coincide with the study, thus developing the learning. 
Therefore I would always direct a new applicant towards the college courses as opposed to the short time courses. I don’t care how old you are, you want to learn and more importantly understand why your bad habits you’ve accumulated over the years are wrong then do the long course and learn properly. 
 

Sadly with the attitudes of younger generations wanting everything ‘ today’ I can only see the training scenarios getting worse. 
Over the years I've had a few apprentices and they have all ended up as very good sparks and for one reason, they WANTED to be sparks! I was 'given' several young lads to train at various companies not all of them made is, one didn't even last a day, in one firm we'd have them on rotation to ensure they got a rounded learning, that was an eye opener for me, I was doing a periodic, as they were known back then and had this lad with me in his 3rd year, last year he'd been with 'Dave', who had taught him some really bad habits, when asked to remove a switch to check it he replied we didn't need to as 'Dave' had checked it last year (this building had an annual inspection) it soon became apparent that 'Dave' did as little as possible, jesus this lad couldn't even thread conduit properly!

I,ve seen some people use apprentices for brushing up, brewing up and going to the shops, but not actually shown them much of the actual job. My favourite trick was to show the lad how to do something and then sit back with a fag and a can of Coke and watch him do the next one, it usually worked. I firmly believe though that you have to WANT to do the job, not just our job but any job, and you have to be temperamentally suited to it, I remember my woodwork teacher at school, "you'll never make a joiner as long as you've got a hole in your arse" I was useless with wood, but I wasn't interested in joinery anyway.

I also find the discrimination thing stupid, like you can't really pick your own apprentice. At the last firm I worked I was the only spark and travelled all over the UK, I very rarely went into the office, I ran from home, anyway they decided we should have an apprentice to make my job easier. I was told that it was up to me to find one from a college near me as it would be easier to pick them up when we were working in say London or Glasgow.

 I looked around and a lot of the modern kids are terrible, they see working away as some kind of holiday and want to be down the pub each night or are constantly messaging their mates. So I had an idea, I'd get myself a girl, I'd worked with a few female sparks over the years and they'd always seemed consciencious and paid attention to detail, plus we're always being told that not enough girls get the chance of an apprenticeship.

So here I was, it was an industrial environment with lots of variety and the company were prepared to pay decent money to the right person, what could possibly be wrong with that? well I''ll tell you, after approaching the local tech colleges I was told that I couldn't ask for a girl, it was sexist! After a look at some of what was on offer I decided not to bother,I'd rather struggle on alone than carry passengers who were only doing it because they thought they'd earn megabucks!

 
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