So, Tesla cars...

My lad has had a good year so yesterday he bought a Tesla, it arrives next Thursday 

no off-road parking until he knocks garden wall down and makes access. So he is thinking about charging it at work.  Charger will accept 22kw max so 32A/phase

needs an RCD

Actually needs a 3 pole Type B RCD

WTAF have you seen how much they are???

contactum don't make one as a RCBO to fit their bag of boards so it will have to be a 32A MCB feeding a stand alone RCD unit then off to the charger.  I think he may be knocking the garden wall down sooner than expected

It's the concept of "I have an electric car, I will charge it at work and let someone pick up the bill" I struggle with.

If he can afford the car, he can afford the RCD for the charger.

Why does he think he needs a 3 phase connection

 must go with the single phase option?

Have a look at a non Tesla charger, some of them have all the required RCD gubbins built in. From what I've seen the only advantage to the Tesla charger is it will open the charge flap on the car for you when you go near with the plug (or it might be press a button on the plug).

Out of interest, what don't you like about contactum boards?

I fitted a 4 way one the other day and found it decent, solidly built, no faffing with the lid, plenty of space inside. However, one gripe I had with it was fitting the bush in to a conduit, top entry was a PITA due to the earth/neutral bar set up, I imagine trying to get an armoured in top entry would be nigh on impossible.

@kerching there are loads of 3phase charge points that have the correct protection built in and only need a 40A MCB....Tesla charge points, as you have found out, need a B type RCD which are friggin' expensive

Get him to have a look at Zappi, but there are many others.... just make sure that they have O-PEN protection built in.... you really don't want to get into the mess of TT'ing it

BTW I did a bit of research on the the charging rates of the Tesla's charger (the bit in the car)

Model 3 - max charge rate 16.5kw - 48 miles (every hour)

Model X - max charge rate 16.5kw - 43 miles (every hour)

Model S - max charge rate 22kw - 60 miles (every hour)

whereas a 7.4kw charger will charge at 19 to 27 miles (every hour)… according to Tesla

ProDave said:

It's the concept of "I have an electric car, I will charge it at work and let someone pick up the bill" I struggle with.

If he can afford the car, he can afford the RCD for the charger.

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NozSpark said:

@kerching there are loads of 3phase charge points that have the correct protection built in and only need a 40A MCB....Tesla charge points, as you have found out, need a B type RCD which are friggin' expensive

Get him to have a look at Zappi, but there are many others.... just make sure that they have O-PEN protection built in.... you really don't want to get into the mess of TT'ing it

BTW I did a bit of research on the the charging rates of the Tesla's charger (the bit in the car)

Model 3 - max charge rate 16.5kw - 48 miles (every hour)

Model X - max charge rate 16.5kw - 43 miles (every hour)

Model S - max charge rate 22kw - 60 miles (every hour)

whereas a 7.4kw charger will charge at 19 to 27 miles (every hour)… according to Tesla

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He has already bought the car and the tesla charger

there is no issue about being able to afford it, just that its a bit steep compared to alternatives. We thought 3phase as he has a local ish 3ph board at work and it would charge quicker, but maybe not

the contactum 3 phase boards are very flimsy, random set of numbers for torque settings, busbar punched out of a bit of tin ( not copper). Stamping of said busbar is so poor that one of the ways is not usable due to pins/tangs/tines being too wide to fit in the breakers. Badly located earth and neutral bars on the sides that are fouled by half of the MCB cables. Main switch has to be fitted onto a plate before being fitted to unit. Incoming neutral tail,from main switch exits through a hole punched through the "tin backboard/spine protected by a bit of grommet strip that falls out.  On the plus side the door has a nice positive lock and they do 25 A RCBOs

so an advert for these guys popped into my inbox earlier this week

https://www.syncev.co.uk/

this is what caught my eye:

Home Charger

3.6KW Charger
10 meters of cable
1 x 20A MCB
Up to 2 hours fitting time
Hand over and App training

£789.99 Installed

Only £439.99 inc VAT

Does make it sound very simple  ..........
with OLEV Grant

Murdoch said:

so an advert for these guys popped into my inbox earlier this week

https://www.syncev.co.uk/

this is what caught my eye:

Home Charger

3.6KW Charger
10 meters of cable
1 x 20A MCB
Up to 2 hours fitting time
Hand over and App training

£789.99 Installed

Only £439.99 inc VAT

Does make it sound very simple  ..........
with OLEV Grant

Click to expand...

TBH if you were having one fitted I'd be looking at a 7kw, not a 3.6kw

The cheapest that I would fit would be a projectEV one.... works out at £625 for an untethered one, plus that grant

The OLEV grant is a right PITA TBH.... the installer applies for it and there's quite a bit of paperwork,, then we submit it to OLEV who then take a couple of months to reject the claim on some very marginal reasoning,,, then you re-submit the paperwork and they maybe pay the money in a couple of months.... It seems that their aim is to reject as many grant claims as is possible.

kerching said:

He has already bought the car and the tesla charger

there is no issue about being able to afford it, just that its a bit steep compared to alternatives. We thought 3phase as he has a local ish 3ph board at work and it would charge quicker, but maybe not

the contactum 3 phase boards are very flimsy, random set of numbers for torque settings, busbar punched out of a bit of tin ( not copper). Stamping of said busbar is so poor that one of the ways is not usable due to pins/tangs/tines being too wide to fit in the breakers. Badly located earth and neutral bars on the sides that are fouled by half of the MCB cables. Main switch has to be fitted onto a plate before being fitted to unit. Incoming neutral tail,from main switch exits through a hole punched through the "tin backboard/spine protected by a bit of grommet strip that falls out.  On the plus side the door has a nice positive lock and they do 25 A RCBOs

Click to expand...

I guess that you don't like the Contactum DB then.... something else to add to your list  

OK... seeing as he already has the charger it'll definitely need the Type B RCD and O-Pen protection if he's charging outside of the equipotential zone.... unless you can guarantee that it is and will remain TNS,,, or TT the entire installation and make sure that any other exposed (earthy) metal work is part of the TT installation

OR really consider getting rid of the Tesla charger and fit something like a Zappi.... everything built in and can be supplied off a 3ph 32A MCB... I've just bought one for a grant job... cost £825...... he might even be able to get a WCS grant payment

kerching said:

My lad has had a good year so yesterday he bought a Tesla, it arrives next Thursday 

no off-road parking until he knocks garden wall down and makes access. So he is thinking about charging it at work.  Charger will accept 22kw max so 32A/phase

needs an RCD

Actually needs a 3 pole Type B RCD

WTAF have you seen how much they are???

contactum don't make one as a RCBO to fit their bag of boards so it will have to be a 32A MCB feeding a stand alone RCD unit then off to the charger.  I think he may be knocking the garden wall down sooner than expected

Click to expand...

It would need to be four pole as it must break all live conductors.

Risteard said:

It would need to be four pole as it must break all live conductors.

Click to expand...

My bad.....yes it was a 4 Pole! Well spotted that mon

https://www.cef.co.uk/catalogue/products/4865134-1-way-tp-n-22kw-isolator-rcd-type-b-ev-distribution-board

NozSpark said:

TBH if you were having one fitted I'd be looking at a 7kw, not a 3.6kw

Click to expand...

It was the "simplicity" of the installation - setting potential clients expectations on the low side for pricing ..............

Update

looks like he will go for the single phase DP RCD variant, stick it on a local board off a 32a MCB at work then move it to his house when the driveway is finished.     But it still ain't cheap

Well, I’ve just been to see a friend on our estate who’s had a quote for a car charger - the Olev spark has said he can’t add a circuit to their existing board - not because its full, but because its not an 18th edition

he missed the fact the main Earth is 4 mm and its TNCS

Murdoch said:

Well, I’ve just been to see a friend on our estate who’s had a quote for a car charger - the Olev spark has said he can’t add a circuit to their existing board - not because its full, but because its not an 18th edition

he missed the fact the main Earth is 4 mm and its TNCS

Click to expand...

Excatly

the annoying bit is I am not OLEV, so my lad won't get the grant ( actually not really an issue as his car charger isn't on the list ) BUT some muppet can do a quick course and in effect be more "qualified" than I am BUT in effect NOT know what he is doing!   What do they teach on these "OLEV Qualification courses"?  Doesn't look like they cover supply types or earthing

Can't do it coz it ain't an 18th edition board?.......makes me weep

kerching said:

Excatly

the annoying bit is I am not OLEV, so my lad won't get the grant ( actually not really an issue as his car charger isn't on the list ) BUT some muppet can do a quick course and in effect be more "qualified" than I am BUT in effect NOT know what he is doing!   What do they teach on these "OLEV Qualification courses"?  Doesn't look like they cover supply types or earthing

Can't do it coz it ain't an 18th edition board?.......makes me weep

Click to expand...

my quote for the correct solution and not getting the olev grant will be about 45% of the olev chaps - assuming the charger company will quote me

Murdoch said:

Well, I’ve just been to see a friend on our estate who’s had a quote for a car charger - the Olev spark has said he can’t add a circuit to their existing board - not because its full, but because its not an 18th edition

he missed the fact the main Earth is 4 mm and its TNCS

Click to expand...

Thats disgraceful TBH,,,, but very similar to what happens with regular work on an almost daily basis

Murdoch said:

my quote for the correct solution and not getting the olev grant will be about 45% of the olev chaps - assuming the charger company will quote me

Click to expand...

I can't see how that would be the case, most OLEV registered installers can get the parts at the same cost, if not cheaper than anyone else... and then get the grant on top.... so effectively they can afford to discount the parts a bit,,,, so the end customer could get an installation at less than the cost of the materials

kerching said:

Excatly

the annoying bit is I am not OLEV, so my lad won't get the grant ( actually not really an issue as his car charger isn't on the list ) BUT some muppet can do a quick course and in effect be more "qualified" than I am BUT in effect NOT know what he is doing!   What do they teach on these "OLEV Qualification courses"?  Doesn't look like they cover supply types or earthing

Can't do it coz it ain't an 18th edition board?.......makes me weep

Click to expand...

IMHO it's just like any course.... it's more about getting approved than anything else... the problem is that many "installers" haven't even read Amd2 or the COP,,, and have a very poor understanding of BS7671

If only he didn't have a Tesla charge point.... he might have been able to get the WCS grant

Tesco round the corner from me has just installed 4 7kw charging points, they seem to be free? I guess they expect most users to only use them for an hr or 2. If I had an EV I would be tempted to use it a lot more!

revjames said:

Tesco round the corner from me has just installed 4 7kw charging points, they seem to be free? I guess they expect most users to only use them for an hr or 2. If I had an EV I would be tempted to use it a lot more!

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Who spends 2 hours in Tesco? 15 minutes maximum if I have to go there in the first place...